harmonic ballancer upgrade ?

[gczarny]

question is when installing eagle crank and steel rods would you gain any by installing better then stock ballancer ? One builder I talked to about it says it could be debated for ever but I have never seen proof of that , in fact the only two steel cranks that snapped and I had to fix had best harmonic ballancers on them , the other race engine builders said ..after a heavy use and taken apart you could see the difference in #1and 2 rod and #1 main bearings between stock and good harmonic ballancer ...... what you think guys , I am about to ballance the assy. with stock dampner and flex plate or should I upgrade ?

 

[Nick Micale]

First of all, the "stock balancer" is actually a hub, and NOT a harmonic balancer.

Further, the stock "balancer" is built for an external balance crank, and most all forged cranks are internal balance.

Assuming you are building a race engine that will see higher than stock RPM, the stock cast "balancer" is NOT a smart idea.

Probably best to get Buick engine building info from those that have actually been successful at it over the years.:redface:

 

[gczarny]

First of all, the "stock balancer" is actually a hub, and NOT a harmonic balancer.

Further, the stock "balancer" is built for an external balance crank, and most all forged cranks are internal balance.

Assuming you are building a race engine that will see higher than stock RPM, the stock cast "balancer" is NOT a smart idea.

Probably best to get Buick engine building info from those that have actually been successful at it over the years.:redface:

well , crank is brand new and my guy says it can be ballanced with stock hub and flex plate or not , my stroker in my car right now has modified stock ballancer ( by the way , I know techincly is NOT ballancer ) , question is , would the motor last longer ? would I gain anything else spending extra $500 or more for good harmonic ballancer ?

 

[Dr.drivability]

well , crank is brand new and my guy says it can be ballanced with stock hub and flex plate or not , my stroker in my car right now has modified stock ballancer ( by the way , I know techincly is NOT ballancer ) , question is , would the motor last longer ? would I gain anything else spending extra $500 or more for good harmonic ballancer ?

Had a stock one nuetral balanced and it broke. Whoops, took out my roller cam , rods, bent valves on my gn1's. BHJ went on it this time!!!!!

 

[Nick Micale]

Maybe you have not seen a dozen or more stock balancers crack and damage cranks on stock motors, so we do not use them on race motors.

Yes, the engine will last longer with a real harmonic balancer to answer you specifically. We have seen a big difference in bottom end and cam wear with a harmonic balancer vs. stock.

If that stock balancer takes out your stroker crank, it will be more than $500 to repair.

For a harmonic balancer to be effective, it must be pressed on the crank, not a slip fit like stock. Which by the way, is the same POS "balancer" used on 140 HP Buick carbed V-6's that could not hardly get over 4000 RPM.

Sorry you do not like my answer, but spending $6-10K on an engine build and not use a real balancer is not a wise choice.

 

[gczarny]

Maybe you have not seen a dozen or more stock balancers crack and damage cranks on stock motors, so we do not use them on race motors.

Yes, the engine will last longer with a real harmonic balancer to answer you specifically. We have seen a big difference in bottom end and cam wear with a harmonic balancer vs. stock.

If that stock balancer takes out your stroker crank, it will be more than $500 to repair.

For a harmonic balancer to be effective, it must be pressed on the crank, not a slip fit like stock. Which by the way, is the same POS "balancer" used on 140 HP Buick carbed V-6's that could not hardly get over 4000 RPM.

Sorry you do not like my answer, but spending $6-10K on an engine build and not use a real balancer is not a wise choice.

now ,this is more of an answer to my question then your first response Nick ,thanks

 

[Nick Micale]

now ,this is more of an answer to my question then your first response Nick ,thanks

It has been 110+ deg. here all week, a few hours a day working on GN's makes my brain more "fuzzy" than usual, just trying to help.

 

[mybuick]

if the ballancer is a press fit. where do someone get a adapter for the harmonic balancer puller/installer?.

 

[bison]

I have a Fluidamper on the one i just finished up. Just like the ones they ran on the Busch cars that were revved way beyond anything i intend to do with mine. Took a little work to get it perfect but im sure its worth the hassle compared to any of the steel POS hubs out there. Nice press fit and neutral. IMO there is little to gain with a stock crank since you will still have a flexing stock crank at any hp where the better damper would be considered.

 

[bison]

Part of pulley adapter installed.

 

[bison]

Probably best to get Buick engine building info from those that have actually been successful at it over the years.:redface:

Aint that the truth!

 

[SPOOLN]

Balancers

Doesnt TA Performance sell a new type balancer ? I think you can use it for either stock cranks or aftermarket.

 

[HP Man]

Aint that the truth!

I wholly agree with NM's statement and attest that he and others in AZ have been involved in Buick for Yrs. Just a few Engine Builders would I trust to either build my engine or give advice, the same for transmissions. I'm thinking of a forged crank myself on my new engine so this info will help me. Good Luck. Gene

 

[Pronto]

Doesnt TA Performance sell a new type balancer ? I think you can use it for either stock cranks or aftermarket.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ad...34-new-sfi-stock-replacement-v6-balancer.html

 

[bison]

Doesnt TA Performance sell a new type balancer ? I think you can use it for either stock cranks or aftermarket.

Yes but there is no dampening associated with it. Its only a balancer. It sure is a lot nicer than the stock one.

 

[gczarny]

It has been 110+ deg. here all week, a few hours a day working on GN's makes my brain more "fuzzy" than usual, just trying to help.

I know that "fuzzy brain" feeling very well , any specific kind of ballancer in mind ? a lot of BHJ users here I see but is this THE ONE ?

 

[Nick Micale]

I know that "fuzzy brain" feeling very well , any specific kind of ballancer in mind ? a lot of BHJ users here I see but is this THE ONE ?

Some how Bison installed a reluctor ring on a Fluidamper, and this is a good piece.:smile:

The BHJ is the only commercial and available damper with a reluctor ring.

The piece from TA is a stock replacement balancer that is SFI since it is steel, but not really a damper. It does have a press fit on the crank which does help.

We use lots of these on street/strip builds, but a high RPM race engine need a "real" damper like the BHJ and Fluidamper.

 

[gczarny]

Some how Bison installed a reluctor ring on a Fluidamper, and this is a good piece.:smile:

The BHJ is the only commercial and available damper with a reluctor ring.

The piece from TA is a stock replacement balancer that is SFI since it is steel, but not really a damper. It does have a press fit on the crank which does help.

We use lots of these on street/strip builds, but a high RPM race engine need a "real" damper like the BHJ and Fluidamper.

ok' , so if I don't want to mess with fluiddamper mods the only choice is BHJ then I guess I go with ......BHJ :smile: , thanks for all the info guys:wink:

 

[Dr.drivability]

if the ballancer is a press fit. where do someone get a adapter for the harmonic balancer puller/installer?.

Got mine from Snap On

 

[bison]

Some how Bison installed a reluctor ring on a Fluidamper, and this is a good piece.:smile:

That part was easy. I just took a broke POS stocker and pressed the ring off, turned down the Fludampr a little to the same dimension as the stocker and pressed on the ring in the correct position all the way down. I had to run the oil slinger and a .060 shim between the damper and the crank gear to space the damper out so it cleared the crank sensor and front cover. I had an adapter made to space out the short crank pulley i ordered form RJC perfectly with the water pump. If you do this on an on center application the spacing will differ but is easily accommodated with pulley spacer which should be made slightly too thick to start and final cut after everything is in place to be sure of perfect alignment. Turbobitt did the same thing on his on center S2 but used an underdrive pulley that fit inside the damper so no spacer was needed. I wanted to keep the stock diameter pulley myself though.