How much boost with alky?

[Dewey]

My motor is mostly stock. I have a cold air kit, 3 in. single shot exhaust, 206/206 cam. and a few other minor bolt on goodies but turbo, IC, intake, and DP are all stock. With this in mind, how much alky assisted boost can I run before I hit a bottleneck and what will the bottleneck be? I'm figuring it will be the IC but I want my car to remain stock appearing to the casual observer so I'm not willing to change it.

 

[Grumpy]

push the boost till ya get knock ... then back it down slightly to be safe

 

[PhilM]

I think someone should post a sticky or something about this one... There are diminishing returns past max turbo efficiency. Generally you crank it as high as the engine/tune/fuel lets you AND as cautious as you are. All parts are some sort of bottleneck, even the performance ones. This also includes the tune.

I still cant figure out why people care what the number is anyways (do u think an ECM looks at just manifold pressure?! - NO! it looks at some sort of flow to determine load) Just make more power and lots of it! It could be 22 or it could be 35... 20lbs on my car will blow away most people running close/over 30psi with more restrictive setups and smaller turbos but still when I tell people I run 20lbs round town, they think it is a joke. No one here can tell you an exact number where you should stop cranking it up. If they do, then they are elemental in the 4th dimension. If you stop at a number someone guessed here, then what do you do? Leave it be?

 

[YellaGN]

20-22psi should be about what your lookin for. Stock turbo and IC are not very effecient...... which will limit the amout of boost w/out getting any knock!

 

[Grumpy]

This also includes the tune.

thats 100% of the battle

 

[Razor]

20-22psi should be about what your lookin for. Stock turbo and IC are not very effecient...... which will limit the amout of boost w/out getting any knock!

If this were the case, guy like Ed Brewer would have never run 11.37 on a stock turbo stock longblock car... and no 11.37 did not happen at 20-22 PSI

 

[Dewey]

I guess the question I'm really asking is what is the threshold of what boost would still be useful with mostly stock hardware. I have no doubt with a careful tune I may be able to run 30 psi, but I may only be making realistic power gains up to about 22 psi. I'm just guessing here, but I see no point in running higher boost levels if I'm not making more power. I don't have a racetrack nearby so I'm not able to make a bunch of passes to tune with. As it stands my current tune allows me to run 20 psi on pump gas and no alky so I don't think it's far off.

 

[QUIP'6']

20-22psi should be about what your lookin for. Stock turbo and IC are not very effecient...... which will limit the amout of boost w/out getting any knock!

maybe on low octane race gas like 100 unleaded. you are underestimating the power of alchy!!!! it will make a stock turbo MORE efficient because it cools the charge not blowing hot air at 22-23 psi resulting in making more power over 23 psi. and it makes a stock innercooler probably as efficient as a duttneck this is a great product for people who dont have the funds to upgrade to a bigger setup letting them compete with big dogs!!! let alone a great product for people tired of paying for RAPE GAS!!!!! no typo there i said RAPE GAS!!!!

 

[Quiky One]

Take it to the track or butt dyno it. When it stops making power or knocks, back it down a little. Pretty simple. You don't want it running on the ragged edge ALL the time. Sure every now and then, but dont expect it to last. Things escalate fast at high boost.

Jason

 

[Razor]

I guess the question I'm really asking is what is the threshold of what boost would still be useful with mostly stock hardware. I have no doubt with a careful tune I may be able to run 30 psi, but I may only be making realistic power gains up to about 22 psi. I'm just guessing here, but I see no point in running higher boost levels if I'm not making more power. I don't have a racetrack nearby so I'm not able to make a bunch of passes to tune with. As it stands my current tune allows me to run 20 psi on pump gas and no alky so I don't think it's far off.

Man its almost an impossible question to answer cuase who knows what shape your engine is really in. I mean its not like it has 250 miles and is brand new.

Only way to find out is start tuning and pay attention to performance. And keep working on all the other issues like valve springs, timing chain, suspension, transmission, etc.. An injection system will take you to the limits of whatever power you can attain. Further than race gas on stock turbo/IC.. way further..

Ed's car had 130K miles at time of run's'.. but he was extremely meticulous on his tuneup and cars setup.

20 PSI on pump gas can be attained if timing is severely pulled and the fuel is turned up making it richer.. if you start leaning it out and getting more aggressive.. it will not do 20 PSI on 93. Better said, odds are it wont

There are cars with 70+MM turbo's running 13's in the 1/4.. and cars with stock turbo's running 11's.. the difference is all in the attention to details/combination.

 

[Dewey]

Actually, my motor IS brand new. I just got done freshening it up after raplacing a piston with a broken skirt. The only differences from stock are going to be the 206 cam, new springs, power plate, and some minor clean up of the heads. I'm going to break it in with the old tune then start pouring the alky to it. I also have a TE 44 waiting to go on, but one step at a time....

 

[PhilM]

Just get out there and make as much as you wish or your engine wishes for you! Again, stock'ish parts will not last - this especially includes internals. Power aint free so be careful! If you already have the 44, then I would put that on there before tuning/tweaking, especially since you will have to redo the tune.

Phil

 

[Razor]

I wouldnt do the 44 unless I had a looser converter than the stock one. On a D5.. leave the stock turbo on it.

 

[deezdad]

I wouldnt do the 44 unless I had a looser converter than the stock one. On a D5.. leave the stock turbo on it.

Razor, would this hold true even with a Garrett exhaust housing?

 

[Razor]

TA49 with a .63 garret is typically the limit.

There are those that have used a 44 with a D5.. if you can get the boost over the hump at the track, it will be fine.

Maybe said like this, if you got a motor.. stock.. put a stock turbo on it tuned at 22 PSI boost... leave at 1 PSI boost..put the 44 turbo.. run 22 PSI.. leaving at 1 PSI.. the stock turbo will win.

Now here is where we split atoms.. put that stock turbo at 26-27 PSI first gear, leave at 15 PSI, and let it run out of steam ~23-24 PSI through the traps on alky.. it will make an 11 second time slip given proper traction and timing.

If you put the 44 turbo on with a D5 and spool it to 15 PSI then leave running 25-27 PSI.. then the 44 will be faster.

Drivability is one thing, coercing a faster ET is another. Trick is leaving at higher boost where the turbo is on the "pipe" spooled up. This is where street vs track play a huge role..

 

[tommynos]

well being im such a pro at this jk julio,all i know is you should make power uping the boost,but holding it together is what no-one knows on a stocker...my block is stock and i went 12.6 at 25psi,i opened my exhaust and the boost pegged the gauge all the way down the track at 30psi and i let off at the end till it dropped back to 26psi and still went 11.9....like i said i dont know much,yet,but with strait race fuel i NEVER saw 24psi without knock,the reason i was all the way down the track before i noticed it at 30 psi is because i was looking at my scanmaster and my knock sensor and neither showed any knock at all,after the last shift i relaxed and saw the 30psi gauge pegged ..lets just say alky helped alot...

 

[fastblackcar]

Up Pipe installation Question

Ok !!!!, you all have convinced me i need to do the alky, from what i read razor's kit seems to have great componets and even better customer service, i checked out the website, nice,i love the way my car pulls with race gas,but costly, but i have 2 questions, how do i install the nozzle in my nice chrome uppipe with out damage, also will i need a new chip? who makes a good chip or have mine redone?? i dont push this car hard everytime i drive it so does the system just standby just in case??
thanx
tom

 

[fastblackcar]

sorry about that entry forgot to start new thread

Sorry

 

[Quiky One]

Go with an Eric chip. TurboTweak Home and if you can wait until the end of the weekend, I will let you know on the chrome shield. On a regular uppipe it is not a problem but with a chrome be real careful not to spin off.

Jason

 

[Razor]

If you grind it.. wont flake off. I have done an easy dozen chrome TR up-pipes. Another tip is use a uni-bit tapered drill bit.. and little by little increase the hole size.