How much HP on the stock block
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If your going to spend all that money on high dollar internals why not pick up a stage block? Check out Jason Cramers build up. He is in the 9's with stock rods and crank, flat tappet cam, stock caps and a girdle.
Pretty much it comes down to how good you are at tunning. Even a motor with all the good stuff will come apart on you If you start detonating. I would think if you did a search on dyno results from low 10 second cars then that would give you a good idea of what you could expect.
Jason
Pretty much it comes down to how good you are at tunning. Even a motor with all the good stuff will come apart on you If you start detonating. I would think if you did a search on dyno results from low 10 second cars then that would give you a good idea of what you could expect.
Jason
Common answer is around 500-600 HP ... being VERY carefull to insure no detonation.
jason's a good example but maybe also an exception since he does his own machine work and might even take out the motor each year(?)
But postal's point is a good one. If you really want to push that kind of HP, consider a girdle or even stage block. However, if you want to put it in a TTA you will need to swap the front crossmember for a tubular k-member since I don't think a girdle will clear the crossmember.
Also, I'm of the opinion that if you want to push that kind of HP into a stock block and you are spending that kind of money, get a FAST system (DFI). I know many disagree with that....
jason's a good example but maybe also an exception since he does his own machine work and might even take out the motor each year(?)
But postal's point is a good one. If you really want to push that kind of HP, consider a girdle or even stage block. However, if you want to put it in a TTA you will need to swap the front crossmember for a tubular k-member since I don't think a girdle will clear the crossmember.
Also, I'm of the opinion that if you want to push that kind of HP into a stock block and you are spending that kind of money, get a FAST system (DFI). I know many disagree with that....
Originally posted by Scott231
We are seeing about 800 rear wheel HP from some of the TSM cars.
Who's making 800 RWHP on a stock block? I havent heard any of the TSM cars touching 150mph(which is what 800 RWHP should be able to do). I thought the fastest was 142.36 which figures to a little under 700 RWHP assuming 3550# weight(even at 3700# your looking at 740ish RWHP).
Just wondering,
Steve
Still not 800 but damn impressive 
to him and the rest of them.
Looks like a rule change is almost in order, the no parachute rule has got to go if they start going 150mph
Not allowing a safty device in a class is a stupid rule anyway though.
I'm pulling for the first 8 second 109 block
Steve
to him and the rest of them.Looks like a rule change is almost in order, the no parachute rule has got to go if they start going 150mph
Not allowing a safty device in a class is a stupid rule anyway though.I'm pulling for the first 8 second 109 block
Steve
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A girdle would be a must. If I could make one fit in my TTA without an aftermarket K memeber...I'd be all over another one. The new owner of my previous car popped holes in 4 of 6 pistions and the bottom end held together with the girdle in there...says something about what it does to strengthen that bottom end up! You would be surprised how strong that OE bottom end is if it's girdled...RJC has proven that already as well as most of the other "fast" TSM cars. As for the FAST system, the "KISS" approach will get you there without the cost. Don't get me wrong, if you opt for the SFI with WB and individual cylinder you'll have a pretty slick set up, but the cost to do it is more than you might want to pay. A buddy of mine Eric Marshall ended up disconnecting his FAST system and going back to the OE computer and has gone just as fast with propper tuning....can be done! If money is not problem, go for it, you'll have a lot of things you can tweak with the FAST...sometimes more than you want. Your on the right path to build a bad ass motor, but do you really need all that must be asked???
Well, Eric's a pretty good chip burner right? So I don't think the average person has that knowledge or capability. Obviously the newer injectors are making it easier to go faster on a stock ECM.
In fact, I asked Eric about doing a chip for me but he was too busy, so obviously the guy has a lot of respect.
I just laugh at people that will spend $10K on the car and not spend the $ for a real DFI. To each their own, doesn't mean dookie to me, I don't sell them or use one (..yet).
Baer makes the same argument for their brakes. Someone will dump wads of $ into a motor, trans and rear and won't spend $1500 to make it stop.
The TTA / girdle thing has been a real dilema for TTA owners.
In fact, I asked Eric about doing a chip for me but he was too busy, so obviously the guy has a lot of respect.
I just laugh at people that will spend $10K on the car and not spend the $ for a real DFI. To each their own, doesn't mean dookie to me, I don't sell them or use one (..yet).
Baer makes the same argument for their brakes. Someone will dump wads of $ into a motor, trans and rear and won't spend $1500 to make it stop.
The TTA / girdle thing has been a real dilema for TTA owners.
Steve, according to this HP calculator......
http://home.neo.rr.com/jturrin/calchp1.htm
Bamford is making 802rwhp and 902fwhp to run 9.57 @142.36mph at his weight of 3560lbs......
IF Guy did run 9.30 @148mph at the minimum weight of 3550lbs he is making 885rwhp and 995fwhp according to this calculator....
Keep in mind the formulas used in this calculator are used by many of the experts
Also, lets not forget Roy Garcia running 9.51 @142mph with his 109 Outlaw car (it weighs around 3400-3450lbs) this past weekend at the Buick Southern Nats and when they get the car sorted out they think it will go 9.30's @145mph.... Roy's motor is only 234ci and he is still using a stock crank (and it does have a girdle)
To me, the best thing about what these people are doing is that it shows we can remain competitive against the turbo/nitrous LS1 type people. Without a proven non-stage upgrade like the girdle, we would be headed toward 2nd class status.
I don't wish to bend this thread into the LS1 argument, but most of us can't cough $10-20K for stage block land, so the "how much on a stock block" question comes up more often now than before.
I don't wish to bend this thread into the LS1 argument, but most of us can't cough $10-20K for stage block land, so the "how much on a stock block" question comes up more often now than before.
Bamford does not have a girdle he just has a forged steel stroker crank as well as good forged rods and pistons (also he has all 4 billet main caps and his motor was built by Dan Strezo of DLS)....
Here is a vid of his car running 9.57 for those of you that didn't see it yet....
http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/dave.bamford.9.57.wmv
Originally posted by 86brick
Steve, according to this HP calculator......
http://home.neo.rr.com/jturrin/calchp1.htm
Bamford is making 802rwhp and 902fwhp to run 9.57 @142.36mph at his weight of 3560lbs......
IF Guy did run 9.30 @148mph at the minimum weight of 3550lbs he is making 885rwhp and 995fwhp according to this calculator....
Keep in mind the formulas used in this calculator are used by many of the experts
I dont buy that calculator, according to it my car should be between 550-570 rwhp(I wish it was, but thats not a realistic figure for my car)
I prefer http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php and according to it:
Bamford is making 697.4 RWHP to run 142.36mph at 3560lbs. Flywheel HP depends on how much drivetrain loss you belive he has but at 20% it comes to 871.8hp
Guy is making 781.4 RWHP to run 148mph at the minimum weight of 3550lbs and at 20% drivetrain loss is making 976.8 FWHP.
Steve
Hmmm, well the flywheel HP #'s are pretty close on both calculators....... I'm not sure how much drivetrain loss they both have, but I would guess it's a good amount cause both Bamford and Guy have a TH-400...... Bottom line is both of these guys are making a lot of power at the flywheel with a stock block and that's what's impressive! Somebody needs to build a 3000-3200lb TR with a badass stock block and run in the 8's
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Has anyone thought of taking 1/2" outta the oil pan and welded it back together? Maybe kick outs could be fabbed to make up for the lost capacity. Modifying it could possibly be the answer to the girdled TTA question. However the cost of doing the fab. could quite possibly approach if not eclipse the cost of the k member.
I know of one that uses either the original steering and suspension(strut type) with the tub. k member or an aftermarket coil over system with a rack and pinion setup. Dont see to many guys with it though so either the cost or work involved to do the swap is the culprit. Also has anyone spoken to rjc to see if a thinner girdle could be made. I dont know if it'll be weaker or not as compared to the one made for turbo buicks, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt it(unless it broke and flung up into the crank
That would be bad then!
I know of one that uses either the original steering and suspension(strut type) with the tub. k member or an aftermarket coil over system with a rack and pinion setup. Dont see to many guys with it though so either the cost or work involved to do the swap is the culprit. Also has anyone spoken to rjc to see if a thinner girdle could be made. I dont know if it'll be weaker or not as compared to the one made for turbo buicks, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt it(unless it broke and flung up into the crank
That would be bad then!
Originally posted by 86brick
Hmmm, well the flywheel HP #'s are pretty close on both calculators....... I'm not sure how much drivetrain loss they both have, but I would guess it's a good amount cause both Bamford and Guy have a TH-400...... Bottom line is both of these guys are making a lot of power at the flywheel with a stock block and that's what's impressive! Somebody needs to build a 3000-3200lb TR with a badass stock block and run in the 8's
I agree 100%
8 second stock block would be wild
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