I'm some pissed..NA block in car

[Ttype83]

When I help disassemble the engine some thing didn't look right and mike & I talked about it but just couldn't put our finger on it.

I should have check the casting numbers then...I'm soooo pissed at myself right now.

Heads casting #6293 w/no bridge at the cooling jackets.

Block...290

If I would have know I wouldn't have had them rebuilt the way I did...(TRW stainless steel 1.77)

I do have the turbo crank & rods..but Hyper-CRAP pistons..The bloodly worst pistons for a turbo car (IMO)

I Don't trust this pistons..so I'm not going to take it to the track...

Sorry for venting
Jim

 

[Freddie's Buick]

I don't get it Jim? What's up? Your '83 has '81 heads with the bigger valves and hyper pistons? Does this mean someone got rid of the OE '83 turbo engine at one time before you got the 'T' ?

 

[87regal]

I dont see why all that is so bad....

sure the pistons probably wont hold up to boost, but that 290 block is listed as a turbo block on gnttyp.org and the 6293 heads are Identical to 8445's except some 6293's dont have the bridged water passeges (some do) I have a set that came with the 82 3.8 shortblock I have in my regal, 290 block and 6293's with the bridged water passeges.

 

[Ttype83]

Originally posted by Freddie's Buick
I don't get it Jim? What's up? Your '83 has '81 heads with the bigger valves and hyper pistons? Does this mean someone got rid of the OE '83 turbo engine at one time before you got the 'T' ?

Some one replaced the engine before I got it with..I'm guessing is a 81 engine and had it (poorly)rebuilt. The heads match yours, I'm thinking that the block casting will too.

I had the larger valves put in when I sent them in for rebuild.

So some where in washington state there is a 83 block & heads sitting without it's insides...well maybe the pistons

I was so pissed/upset/depressed that I wanted to just dump the car...If I had know that it was already been rapped I problily would have converted to SFI. I passed on a complete 87 for $1500. I already have over half of that in parts on my rebuild.

 

[Ttype83]

Originally posted by 87regal
I dont see why all that is so bad....

sure the pistons probably wont hold up to boost,

COLOR=blue]That is one of the reasons I'm so pissed..I had planned on running at the track...Not on hyper-crap[/COLOR]

but that 290 block is listed as a turbo block on gnttyp.org and the 6293 heads are Identical to 8445's except some 6293's dont have the bridged water passeges (some do)

My are NOT bridged...if I had know I could have gotten some 8445's. My opion, but I just wasted good valves & rebuild in crap heads

I have a set that came with the 82 3.8 shortblock I have in my regal, 290 block and 6293's with the bridged water passeges. [/B]

Not trying to flame you, it's just I was setting this car up to run some good track times. I was hoping to run low 14's..then I was to add alky and up the boost more. I had aready planned on sending the turbo in next year to be hogged out.
I now can not do this..plans are gone up in smoke.

 

[83build-up]

all is not lost.your heads are the same as 8445's then whats the prob.even if you changed the heads to 8445's and put your valves in them do you really think it would run any better?doubt it.and hyper-crap pistons you mean hyper-techtic pistons?if so these pistons are not as bad as you may think.from what i read they are stronger then stock cast turbo pistons but not as strong as forged.they are middle of the line.I rebuilt a fuel injected 3.8 turbo GN with a set of keith black hyper pistons and ran 15-20 pounds of boost with know problems at all.so there's no reason you couldn't run your car at the track.so i'm not sure what all the fuss is.Heck i put a 4.1 buick stock block in a 82 sport coupe i had,no turbo or forged pistons,stock cast and ran 15 psi with no problem.the car was noticably faster with the 4.1 compared to the 3.8 that was in it before it blew.so i wouldn't be so pissed because of the pistons.and if you are so bummed out,come on over to my house in ohio and i'll give you a complete stock 83 3.8 turbo long block which ran fine when it was pulled so you shouldn't even have to rebuild it.so don't worry it's not the end,there's allways a light at the end of the rainbow.

 

[87regal]

Originally posted by Ttype83


Not trying to flame you, it's just I was setting this car up to run some good track times. I was hoping to run low 14's...

No Flames taken, and this is certainly not meant to be a flame.

With the exception of the pistons, I still think low 14's or even quicker with more boost and alcy. would be safe. From what I have read on the board or at least to what I remember about the bridged water passages is that they help more with cooling, than strength. maybe Im wrong(if so someone please correct me), but that is what I recall hearing.

As far as the block, I dont see why it wouldnt take the abuse when it has the right internals, you already have the crank and rods, and I think the non-bridged 6293's would hold up just fine. I dont think they are a CRAP set of heads, maybe not quite as good as bridged or 8445's but certainly not crap.

FWIW, my goal with my NA 3.8 is high 14's NA and then in the future a 75-100...maybe 125 shot of NO2, I know it wont see boost, but I think it will hold up to the NO2 just fine.

 

[b4black]

I wouldn't worry either. These all might be issues on a 10 car, but not a 14 sec car! I have NA motors in both my '82's. GM even sells remanufactured NA's motors for VIN 3 and 8. That means even they will warrenty a NA engine in a Carb/Turbo car. There are plenty of reports of NA engines in 86/87 Turbo cars runing 12's.

Hyperutectic's vary in quality. Just like any other pistons, some are great and some suck. Do you know what brand they are?

Crap heads? Those heads are 99% of what the 8445 heads are. If your so worried about the bridge, weld one in. That's how Smokey Yunick did it. It's to change the coolant flows slightly, not strength (Smokely like running engines HOT and at high RPM's). Ever heard of a head failing becuase it didn't have bridge? You will never see an ill effect of not having this bridge on your car.

What about an '83 block would make you happier over what you have? What other than the bigger valves did you do to the engine?



This is how I would look at a situation like yours (or how I do look at it with my '82's NA motors). It's not original, so I can beat the snot out of it and not worry about ruining something valueable. When the time comes that I break it or needs a rebuild, or I want something better, I'll rebuild a different motor. Until then, I keep an eye open for a correct year block, or a 4.1, or a 109 block. (Actually, I don't want the 109 block even thought the SFI guys hail it as best. I'm not building a 10 second car).

 

[Chuck Leeper]

HEADZ?

Jim, Don't get your panties in a wad!! the bridge on the ends can be put in VERY easily!! take them to a machine shop, have the machinist drill the center of the slots, [done on a mill] tap and install an IRONTITE cast iron plug. They then cut it off at the deck face and resurface the head...Ruggles had done that for years!!
Nuthin wrong w/ the block, and like someone said hypers are ok for 14 sec's...10's NO!!

 

[Ttype83]

Re: HEADZ?

Originally posted by Chuck Leeper
Jim, Don't get your panties in a wad!! the bridge on the ends can be put in VERY easily!! ...Ruggles had done that for years!!
Nuthin wrong w/ the block, and like someone said hypers are ok for 14 sec's...10's NO!!

LOL..to late knickers are in a twist. ..
Here are the pistons in my car...they are know to cause piston slap and crumble under high boost(Federal's)
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/pistonguide/38hyperpiston.html
I was already running 14# boost and had it up to 18# for a while (opps maybe thats why #6 cly blow the HG)

The max boost I can run safely is 14..I maybe able to push it to 18 again

OK thanks guys I'm much happier with the heads today than yesterday. I'm more pissed at myself for not catching it.( I'm alittle bit of a perfectionists when it comes to work(anal)that's why I didn't some work,it'll take my for ever)

83Build-up thanks for the offer.....I was more upset that I had passed on 3 engines..1-87,2-84/85's all for great prices

87regal..thanks too,but where did you find the 290 casting # on gnttype.org...I could not find it at alll

B4Black(Rich) TRW 1.7 intake, TRW 1.50(stock)exh with a 3 angle cut. valves shaved and 85lbs springs and some porting. New cam mild(specs when I get them),steel cam bearing front & back,3" single shot exh. (no new down pipe or cross over for now)
Thinking that I had a stock clean 83 I was just going to improve it, If I had know that it was already changed ,my build up would have be much more radical and I would have tried for 12's this year.
I also passed up on a complete 87 GN that needed some work for under 4K.....hind sight.....
Thanks for listening
Jim

 

[b4black]

Re: Re: HEADZ?

There's a table on this page, but I'm not confident it's 100%:
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

I see two "290" numbers. 25514290 for a '79 and 25524290 for '84. The '79 wouldn't have a hole for the knock sensor originally.


I think your good (great) with the heads. Is it too late to change the pistons or even the short block before you get it all back together? (I know, that's more $$$)


At 14-18 # boost, how were you monitoring knock?

 

[Ttype83]

Re: Re: Re: HEADZ?

Originally posted by b4black
Is it too late to change the pistons or even the short block before you get it all back together? (I know, that's more $$$)


At 14-18 # boost, how were you monitoring knock?

There is a 85/86 short block for sale, rebuilt with TRW fordged pistons and 0 miles...1k I'm passing in it car is going back together as soon as the cam cames in.
I missed out on some great deals.......

knock...I wasn't hess the blowen HG.... My fault and I know it. I had to retard the timing 7deg to make 18# work. It was a dog off the line, but secound and third would snap your neck back. I think this is also what cracked my headers.

 

[87regal]

Re: Re: Re: HEADZ?

Originally posted by b4black
There's a table on this page, but I'm not confident it's 100%:
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

I see two "290" numbers. 25514290 for a '79 and 25524290 for '84. The '79 wouldn't have a hole for the knock sensor originally.

FWIW, the casting number for the "79 RWD turbo" block is the same I have on this 82 shortblock in my car...it was out of an 82 NA regal.

 

[pat83t]

I will keep a look out for your motor. I will probably even let you get it back if I find it.

 

[Ttype83]

Originally posted by pat83t
I will keep a look out for your motor. I will probably even let you get it back if I find it.

Well you can start here

DATE
REPORTED ODOMETER
READING INFORMATION
SOURCE GENERAL
COMMENTS
04/02/1996 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Gig Harbor, WA
Title #830251131296093
Title or registration issued

or

01/11/1997 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Sumner, WA
Title #960901150397011
Title or registration issued

or

12/06/1999 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Spanaway, WA
Title #9835227501
Title or registration issued
Ownership transfer reported

or

02/03/2000 Washington
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Puyallup, WA
Title #9934044510
Title or registration issued
Ownership transfer reported


My bet would be Gig Harbor or Sumner...Man I was told that I was only the third owner...

 

[pat83t]

damn, your car is a whore. Can I own it next?? It will go to a good home. I have all kinds of experience throwing money at these cars.

 

[Ttype83]

I think that I will just change it's image...whore to slut...just pass to around

I'm feeling much better about it now..had the cam bumped up a notch sense it's still on back order...maybe two more weeks before it comes in

I'm also looking at a rolling 87
http://www.musclecarsalvage.com/newlist.htm

 

[Ttype83]

I passed on the 87 GN.....Should have got the car from Dana when he offered it to my for a great price with a lot of spare parts