Is my converter installed/seated properly?

[V6UnderPressure]

Here are some pics. I swear I got the 3 "clicks" when I installed it and then I pushed it forward to see how far it went in before hitting the engine. Anyhow, I shimmed it and got it exactly 1/8 forward from being seated in the tranny and all tightened up. However, I noticed from reading on some threads that when people had the converter all the way seated that the little bumps touched the pump. Mine never did this. Just for the record it is an ATI non locking converter. If someone can let me know if all is well I would appreciate it!

 

[S10xGN]

I'd never heard that about the "bumps touching the pump" before...

I'd sure be concerned about shimming the converter though, converters need room to "expand" a bit lengthwise under load. If you shim it, you may wipe the engine's thrust bearing. When there's no room for expansion, something has to give. Just my opinion on that.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Well, it was my understanding that the shimming was to prevent the thrust bearing wear. In short, I thought the procedure was to push the converter all the way into the tranny, then pull it out 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch and whatever space you have left between the converter and flywheel, you put shims in. Correct me if I am wrong?

 

[87natl]

I've never shimmed mine. But I will guarantee you that yours is seated.

 

[mygn276]

The reason for shimming the converter back like you did is to keep the converter spline from disengaging from the pump. Has nothing to do with thrust bearing.You installed in properly

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

this is the first i've heard of shimming.... tell me more- I understannd the concept, but wonder why ive never heard of it. Reason i ask is b/c i am literally just about to finish putting my driveshaft in and tighten the TC bolts [put the tranny in this morning]. - talk about timing.:wink:

 

[Steve V]

The front of the TC can expand(balloon) under abuse(power braking,launch etc). This can take out the thrust bearing in the engine. It will not disengage the splines,pump in the trans.

People shim the TC back to prevent this. If your shims are too thick the neck of the TC can bottom out in the pump ruining the pump and tranny.

FWIW I don't shim mine. I have 2 with stock D5's and the other has a Billet 9X11. A billet cover can not expand.

 

[Lee Thompson]

You did it right !!!

Push convertor all the way into tran--pull out 1/8 in. and if it is touching flexplate @ that point --bolt it up--if not shim the remaining distance. If convertor is all the way back and touching flexplate or you shim the remaining distance then there is NO PLAY and if there is ANY expansion or balooning then the pump or thrust washer will take the hit. Be sure all 3 washers are the same EXACT thickness. Clear???
A stock convertor or restalled stock, and I know all the Precision Industries, I have installed did not need to be shimed. Another thing you can check before putting trans in is to measure from the trans flange back to the convertor pads and that should be around 3/4--7/8 in. ( different brands convertors will measure different)) when all the way into pump. The 2 notches on the convertor engage with 2 ears on the pump rotor. That is why you can't pull it out too far.

 

[Blazer406]

.........I'd sure be concerned about shimming the converter though, converters need room to "expand" a bit lengthwise under load. If you shim it, you may wipe the engine's thrust bearing. When there's no room for expansion, something has to give. Just my opinion on that.

Exactly

Well, it was my understanding that the shimming was to prevent the thrust bearing wear. .......Correct me if I am wrong?

No... shimming takes out excess tolerances and engages more length of splines which IMHO isn't necessary. Problem is if you shim it too much... and you do get some expansion/balloning .... it will take out the thrust bearing.... IMHO some slop is good.... too much is way better than not enough in this case...

The reason for shimming the converter back like you did is to keep the converter spline from disengaging from the pump. Has nothing to do with thrust bearing.You installed in properly

True except if you shim too tight you are much more likely to have thrust bearing issues.... so it does have to do with thrust....

The front of the TC can expand(balloon) under abuse(power braking,launch etc). This can take out the thrust bearing in the engine. It will not disengage the splines,pump in the trans.

People shim the TC back to prevent this. If your shims are too thick the neck of the TC can bottom out in the pump ruining the pump and tranny.

FWIW I don't shim mine. I have 2 with stock D5's and the other has a Billet 9X11. A billet cover can not expand.

IMHO... this is not the case... If you shim until there is very little "slop"... when the converter does expand (and it will) it will use up that little bit of slop you left quickly... once the slop is gone... it can't go anwhere and you get thrust bearing wear on the main in the engine... this is a very bad thing.

If you leave a decent amount of slop... she can expand.. and take up some of the slop... without putting this load back into the crank..... it just slides on the splines on the tranny input shaft/stator tube.

I think some people are scared they aren't engaged enough on the pump tangs.... or input shaft... or stator tube..... IMHO.... this is not an issue in the majority of the cases.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I was also under the impression that if you don't shim back as well that if you try to tighten the converter while the hub is touching the shaft you are putting force against it. So basically it should be a certain space in between the pump and flywheel.

 

[Blazer406]

I was also under the impression that if you don't shim back as well that if you try to tighten the converter while the hub is touching the shaft you are putting force against it. So basically it should be a certain space in between the pump and flywheel.

IMHO... the only way to put force into the thrust bearing is if you have shimmed to the point it is preloaded onto the flexplate... or have shimmed it so tight... that all the slop is gone... and when the converter expands... there is no where for this expansion to go... so it (the load) is transmitted back into the thrust bearing.

HTH

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Ok, I must have worded it wrong, because it sounds like I had the right idea. Shimmed too far and you can take out the tranny pump and shimmed too short it can take out the thrust bearing. So basically it should be in the middle. Correct?

 

[Blazer406]

I think you've got it...

Although... I don't think many have hurt their pump by not shimming (unless you were running a tranny adaptor plate or something.

Most posts on this subject are about thrust bearing issues and trying to figure out why theirs was "taken" out....

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

i just ran out to the garage... my TC [mounting pads] are approximately 3/8" away from the flywheel [before pulling out to thread bolts] - Is this within specs/normal or should i shim?

ps if it matters i am using a billet 9x11.

 

[Steve V]

I am not goiing to get into pissing match with anybody one here:wink: I have my way of thinking and others have theirs

A billet cover can not expand. That is the reason for a billet cover.

 

[bmackinnon]

i just ran out to the garage... my TC [mounting pads] are approximately 3/8" away from the flywheel [before pulling out to thread bolts] - Is this within specs/normal or should i shim?

ps if it matters i am using a billet 9x11.

Normal.... bolt 'er down.... :smile:

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

thats what i figured [since the tranny has been out many times] but i have been using the same convertor - never had a pump failure or convertor problem

just happened to stumble on this thread while i was taking a break from working on my car - Never can be too safe & just wanted to triple check before i "button'er up"

Cant wait to drive, gotta finish installing the sway bar tomorrow.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

My converter has an anti-ballon plate, should that help?

 

[Blazer406]

Billet covers and anti-ballooning plates do help tremendously for the converter ballooning.

The cooler line pressure (if too high) also tends to turn the converter into a big hydraulic piston... pushing on your flexplate. IMHO... this is one of the main culprits of the thrust bearing issues.

I don't see anything wrong with shimming it like Lee suggested... I would also think if one is concerned about thrust issues... to check this clearance if you don't already know what yours is.... as well as the cooler line pressure on the return line going into the tranny from the cooler..... this is supposed to be nearly the same if not exactly the same pressure the inside the converter "sees". Seems like I saw a thread that suggested this needs to be 40 psi or less.... I'll see if I can dig the thread up if anyone is interested...

Oh.... I hope no one took my contributions the wrong way.... no pissing matched intended... Occasionally my fingers don't accurately depict what the brain was thinking....

 

[MSDGN]

i just ran out to the garage... my TC [mounting pads] are approximately 3/8" away from the flywheel [before pulling out to thread bolts] - Is this within specs/normal or should i shim?

ps if it matters i am using a billet 9x11.

IMO...3/8" is too much...all the converters I've had call for a gap of 1/8-3/16...I would put shims in to get the gap in that range...