Is there a doctor (GM tech) in the house?

[turbojimmy]

I bought one of those flood cars I mentioned a couple of months back. I have to say I chose the wrong vehicle to try to restore. Something simple like a Century or Alero, or even a Park Avenue might have been okay, but noooooooooooo.....I got a 2001 DeVille DTS.

Here's the deal: I'm looking for information on how the various modules interact with each other. It appears as if there is a hierarchy of "modules" with 3 main modules comprising the "Body Control Module" (BCM) - the IPM, DIM and RIM. All other modules in the car (steering column, HVAC, heated seats, lumbar massage, door modules, etc.) communicate to, through or with the "BCM". I have a few questions:

1) I've got nothing going on inside the car except for the IP cluster lights when I turn the key on. The question is: if one of the BCM modules fail, do they all fail to work? Things with their own modules, like wipers and suspension (load leveling) work fine.

2) The door modules - which control the power windows and door locks - as well as the steering column module (for the tilt and telescopoing wheel) communicate with the BCM modules but are do not appear to be dependent upon them for operation (like, for example the fog lights which rely on the RIM for relay control). However, PDL, PW and steering column don't work. If those modules cannot communicate with the BCM, do they stop working? Or am I to assume that they are bad as well?

3) The PCM communicates with the instrument cluster, which is also dead. The starter isn't cranking and I'm wondering if the failed instrument cluster could cause this. I'm pretty sure the PCM is okay because it's a sealed unit. If I look at the starting circuit in the manual, it does not appear as if there are any electronics that would affect cranking (other than the signal from the PCM) but then the diagram does not show the neutral safety switch either, which I know is part of the circuit. Does the PCM pretty much operate independently of the BCM and only report data back to it? Or if the BCM has failed will the PCM fail to work?

On one hand there is a lot to think about, on the other I'm learning a lot and enjoy the detective work. I'm going to take the intake and valve covers off tomorrow and see what I've got. If the engine is good inside then I'll try to get it running. Once running, I'm going to try to solve the above issues. If all modules are bad, I'd be in for about $2k in new modules (unless I find a donor car). If it's just the BCM modules it'll only be a few hundred bux.

If I knew someone with a Tech2 scanner I could test the modules independently (anyone in the NJ area have one)?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[gn4u2c]

Put it back in the water.

otherwise your in for some headaches

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by gn4u2c
Put it back in the water.

otherwise your in for some headaches

I think it'll be fine, it just needs completely disassembled, cleaned and put back together. I just want to get a better understanding how it all works.

Everyone has a friend whose sister's cousin's brother bought a flood car real cheap and it never worked right and had a dent from a boat rudder in the roof.

I can always send it back to auction, but I'm not ready to call it quits yet. Here's some pics:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/DTS_111604-1sm.jpg
http://www.turbojimmy.com/DTS_111504-2sm.jpg
http://www.turbojimmy.com/DTS_111604-3sm.jpg
http://www.turbojimmy.com/DTS_111604-4sm.jpg

Jim

 

[Drew L]

What does a car like that go for?

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by Drew L
What does a car like that go for?

Around $7k. It needs about $2k in electronics and I just found out this morning the motor's seized. So it needs another $2,500 drivetrain (DIY price - the dealer gets close to $7k I believe).

High blue book is $27k, low is $20k. I'd still be well under low blue book even with a new motor but I'm sending it back. It's too much work. I was told that I'd just need to dry it out and that it was running before they dropped it off. There's no way that thing has run since the day it was flooded, perhaps not even before that. Plugs are carbon fouled and there's a lot of carbon in the cylinders - this is a 40k mile car that supposedly doesn't need new plugs 'til 100k. They'll turn it back out to auction and I'll pick up the Denali as I had originally intended (rebuilt wreck, not a flood).

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Ummmm, nevermind. I'm an idiot. Turns out it takes a little more oomph to turn 4 cams and 8 pistons than I could muster with two fingers on the end of a 3/4" wrench.

I pulled the wheel and put a ratchet on the damper bolt. It spins just fine. I think the carbon fouled plugs are because it was actually running, albeit poorly, at the yard.

I may stick with it........

Jim

 

[Drew L]

Good luck.

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by Drew L
Good luck.

Thanks - I'll need it!

Jim

 

[turbot2496]

Hey Jim.... can you get any history on the car as in previous owner?? Anything in the car that could give you a hint? How high did the water get?? Was the car totally submerged??

I've bought a flood damaged vehicle before and it was an excellent deal. On mine though the water got about half way up the doors-- no water in the motor. It dried out fine and was a good truck for many years. Alot of people jump the gun on flood vehicles thinking they are ruined forever.

Go to a dealership and explain your cars current condition to a tech. Don't tell him the car got wet.... just tell him what the car is currently doing and what could cause it. I would not be suprised to see that its probably something really simple thats causing the problem. Good Luck.

 

[turbojimmy]

Thanks for the advice.

I've called a couple of dealers. They don't want to deal with me unless I bring the car in. My uncle (who sells these things) says he's in tight with his local GM dealer so I may get some advice that way.

I'm not really too concerned with the inside stuff yet. I'll have to address it eventually, but I'm really more concerned with the motor. The car was submerged up to the tops of the headrests. Motor definitely submerged. I just want to see if it'll run. There's no mud inside the cylinders, but they have black stuff on the tops of them - looks like carbon. It turns over (with a ratchet handle) with no awful noises or tight spots. The key won't crank it over, though. When I turn the key I hear numerous relays, one of which is the starter relay. I need to check the wiring diagram but I think the only way for that to get juice is from the PCM. The PCM, however, is not responding to my scan tool.

I popped the PCM open and it's bone dry inside - definitely sealed. It may need reprogrammed (can't get any local dealers interested in doing it for me) or it may be toast. My uncle has a non-flood, collision-total 2000 DeVille that I can cannibalize. If that PCM is okay I can have his dealer friend program it with my VIN and specs. I can also snag the interior modules off of that car but I need to know if the 2000 and 2001s are interchangeable. I'm reasonable sury they are, but not I'm not 100% on that.

I'm down to almost bare metal inside the car. Once I'm there I'm going to hose the mud out of it and start putting it back together.

Anyhow, it's fun watching my neighbors react to me stripping what from a distance appears to be a perfectly good, new Caddy.

Jim

 

[turbot2496]

hmmmm--- sad to here water got in the motor... thats bad.. Also you do know that the value of this car even if you get it all fixed up will be nowhere near book value... I imagine it has a salvage title if you bought it an insurance auction. That kills the value as not many people will even look at a rebuilt flood vehicle and nobody will loan on it. If you bought it for personal use though it could be a great deal.

At work once years ago we had a bronco that was backed into a lake and submerged all the way. When we got it we drained and replaced all fluids and chased a few gremlins, dried it out and the thing eventually seemed to be ok and run fine. The department that owned it didn't trust it though and sold it so I don't know how long it ran. Good luck, I hope you get it running.

 

[turbojimmy]

Yeah, I know it won't be worth anywhere near book value. I use them for personal use and use the trade-in value as an upper limit of what to spend on them. I've sold them before and can usually get a little under trade-in for them. There's always someone looking for a bargain and willing to take some risk.

I buy these because they allow me to drive a nicer car than I could otherwise afford - just takes some work to get them road worthy. I'm not in a position to spend $25k on a Caddy, but $10k I can stomach. I bought this car for personal use and intend on driving it 'til it's dead (which hopefully will be some number of years from now).

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Okay, for those who were curious, the car is done. It came out nice. Pics here:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/dts/dts.html

I learned a lot and will probably continue to learn about these things. The Cadillacs are put together really nice and this one is no exception.

There's little evidence of the flood unless you look hard. No smells, everything works and it seems to be a great car. I haven't actually driven it yet (title problems) but the dealer really liked it (I brought it there for some final software fixes).

The engine/trans were fine. I replaced most of the electronics using parts from a donor car (collision totaled 2000 DTS).

So it turned out to be a decent deal - better than the collision totals I've bought in the past. I'd never do the work myself again, though. It was a total pain in the butt.

Jim

 

[INEEDAGN]

Good to hear! I hope the tranny holds together for ya, clutches and bands don't like water. Service the hell outta that thing!

bob

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

awesome, i was wondering how it turned out-

that car looks very nice, nobody would know if it was flooded out-
sure looks like a headache, but not too bad once your done


so you drink miller high life sick bstard, i cant stand that stuff, yuk.. im more of a busch light/ coors original / guiness
BW

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.
awesome, i was wondering how it turned out-

that car looks very nice, nobody would know if it was flooded out-
sure looks like a headache, but not too bad once your done


so you drink miller high life sick bstard, i cant stand that stuff, yuk.. im more of a busch light/ coors original / guiness
BW

Thanks!

You know, I bought a 12-pack of Miller High Life one weekend when I was working on the car. Never did it before, and never will do it again. But there it is for the world to see. I thought I'd try something different, wanted to try a Miller product and had already done Genuine Draft, Lite, etc. It was pretty awful.

I've got a 30 of MGD in the fridge now in preparation for the Big Game.

Jim

 

[TurboJim]

Wow Jim. You got way too much ambition. I dont even like going that far when I'm getting PAID to!

But it looks like the car came out nice. Good job!

 

[turbojimmy]

Originally posted by TurboJim
Wow Jim. You got way too much ambition. I dont even like going that far when I'm getting PAID to!

But it looks like the car came out nice. Good job!

Thanks!

You round up a whole lotta ambition when you look out in the garage and say to yourself "I paid $7k for that heap of sh*t, I really need to make it work!". I don't have $7k to throw around so there was a lot of waking up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. It was a point-of-no-return kind of thing.

And I still haven't driven it 'cept 'round the 'hood a bit. I have spent a fair amount of time in the driver's seat with the Bose sound system cranked up, but I haven't really driven it yet. The dealer did put a decent amount of mileage on it trying to clear an ABS error ('twas the left rear wheel speed sensor).

The title got hung up with the officials in PA, they want Virginia salvage title first, which wasn't part of the plan. If my uncle is to be believed I should have a good title in a week or so.

It should make a comfy daily driver for a few years (knock on wood). The V8 sounds sweet even if it isn't "fast".

Jim

 

[JoeNational]

I have to say that is amazing. i would never even think of doing that, if you dont mind how much did you spend in total i mean i know the car was 7k when you bought it. i give you a whole lot of credit for doing something like this, the car looks great. good luck with it.

 

[troGNman]

Wow, that was a major undertaking! I'm glad you had the patience to finish the job. I never could have pulled that off.

I noticed the front grille of the car looks a little different than stock. I see what looks like two Caddy crests, hood/grille. The grille 'hole' was usually reserved for cars that got the "nightvision" option.

See if you can scrounge up the chrome rims for that car. My neighbor has the same year car in red with the chrome wheels and it is stunning to say the least.

Enjoy the car and excellent job!