Is this a good combo or is a waste of money?

[oddiesGN]

What do you do if you want to go bigger return line thats got to be much harder. Is the hole in the fuel rail going to the regulator big enough and the fitting out regulator also big enough? If I go bigger return line do I have to get different regulator? What has others done and could you please post a picture of how you did all the fittings off the fuel rail both feed and return, that will help clear up some questions.

Thanks, Otes.

 

[big reazon]

here http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...342327-new-walbro-performance-fuel-pumps.html he posted in this thread pm him turbofabicator if more help is needed.

 

[Amelio]

Hey Otes.....

I am still using the stock hard line coming off the fuel pump for my feed it is plenty big for my fuel requirements......I can not really answer to good for yours because you are running E-85 but I would think it's fine. Now on my return I mentioned I have a -4 coming directly out of my regulator and running -4 ss all the way to the tank.....now going back into the stock return on the pump there is a restriction........I have to use a bulk head A/N fitting and drill a hole in my tank to accomplish this.

As far as your push rod question I did not set lash because I am using stock rockers so there is no adjustment there. I installed my rocker bar and rotaded the engine to where the intake/exhaust valve (depending on which one you are hecking) is shut and I am past overlap. At this point your lifter is compressed and you take your measurement.......you will change your preload by lengthing or shortening your pushrod tool. Once you get your preload where you want you remove your pushrod tool and measure it......then that is the length pushrod you buy

I know it sounds a little confusing but once you have the pushrod tool in your hand and you begin the process it will make sense real quick.

 

[oddiesGN]

I am still using the stock hard line coming off the fuel pump for my feed it is plenty big for my fuel requirements......I can not really answer to good for yours because you are running E-85 but I would think it's fine. Now on my return I mentioned I have a -4 coming directly out of my regulator and running -4 ss all the way to the tank.....now going back into the stock return on the pump there is a restriction........I have to use a bulk head A/N fitting and drill a hole in my tank to accomplish this.

As far as your push rod question I did not set lash because I am using stock rockers so there is no adjustment there. I installed my rocker bar and rotaded the engine to where the intake/exhaust valve (depending on which one you are hecking) is shut and I am past overlap. At this point your lifter is compressed and you take your measurement.......you will change your preload by lengthing or shortening your pushrod tool. Once you get your preload where you want you remove your pushrod tool and measure it......then that is the length pushrod you buy

I know it sounds a little confusing but once you have the pushrod tool in your hand and you begin the process it will make sense real quick.

So to check for correct length, rotate engine till the valve your checking is closed (is it right before valvle opens or right after valve closes?) you put in adjustable pushrod, install rocker shaft, adjust pushrod till you have correct preload, then measure pushrod. Would that be correct or did I screw it up? As long as all the valves are the exact same length, can't I just measure for one intake and one exhaust pushrod? I've always just used roller rockers and did my adjusting with them.

Thanks, Otes.

 

[Steve]

So to check for correct length, rotate engine till the valve your checking is closed (is it right before valvle opens or right after valve closes?) you put in adjustable pushrod, install rocker shaft, adjust pushrod till you have correct preload, then measure pushrod. Would that be correct or did I screw it up? As long as all the valves are the exact same length, can't I just measure for one intake and one exhaust pushrod? I've always just used roller rockers and did my adjusting with them.

Thanks, Otes.

Yes you have the basic idea. You just want to make sure the lifter is on the heel of the cam meaning that the lifter is on on the lower parts of the cam and not on the lobe at all. Do be aware that the length the pushrods come in is not the actual length of the pushrod if up measured it with a set of calipers. The length the pushrods come in and are labeled is the theoretical length they would be if you there was no hole thru the center and the rounded end was complete. Even if you have roller rockers you still need to do this procedure to come up with the correct length of pushrod because even though you can adjust the preload with adjustable rockers the pushrod still needs to be the correct length to have the correct valvetrain geometry. More than likely you could get the same pushrod that others use with similar combos and get away with it and be "close enough" but even if you have adjustable rockers its always best to go thru this procedure and make sure that the geometry is correct and that the rocker arm is pushing on the correct part of the valve. There is tons of info on the internet about valvetrain geometry.

 

[Mr.Spool]

im not sure where you are at with this potential combo but these are alot of parts to run mid 11's.run a wideband buy an alky kit run the 49 on your stock motor maybe port the head and intake and leave the motor alone.put some boost and timing into, it good tires and you are there.i took the 49 down to 11.1 on a 1.55 short time on a 275 drag radial in a full weight car.car could run 11.40's all day driving to and from the track.i don't know much about e85 except you need an entire fuel system upgrade.but to run 11.5 seems like alot.

 

[we4Mateo]

You can always just run stock everything and you won't need to worry about pushrod length. Stock longblocks have been in the 10's and 9's even, not for very long but it happens, so save your money and make what you have run good first. Then a bigger turbo will net you real results... My car runs 11.6 to 11.8 over and over and over even on hot days on an easy, safe, street tune. I have a lot of friends that have these cars and the stock ones are driven the most and raced the most. Once that motor comes apart and you need a low 10 sec car, the reliabilty just doesn't seem to be there. Others will argue, but show me a 10 sec car that has an unopened motor with 200k miles on it. But it all depends on what YOU want, but I think you'll have a really fun, reliable, fast car with equipment you have and a few supporting mods so you can tune it.

 

[Amelio]

So to check for correct length, rotate engine till the valve your checking is closed (is it right before valvle opens or right after valve closes?) you put in adjustable pushrod, install rocker shaft, adjust pushrod till you have correct preload, then measure pushrod. Would that be correct or did I screw it up? As long as all the valves are the exact same length, can't I just measure for one intake and one exhaust pushrod? I've always just used roller rockers and did my adjusting with them.

Thanks, Otes.

you got the idea just be sure the lifetr is not on the lobe as Steve described.......

You can measure just one if you like and you may be fine but going to a roller cam there are measurements you want to be sure are correct. This in my opinion is where you should take your time. Yes it is lenghty but it will pay off when its running. I measured every single one and found that the pass side head was .010 more than the driver side head still it was well within spec but atleast I know what I am working with. Roller rockers are great if you got the money but not needed and yes you still need to have correct pushrod length. You also need to make sure your new behive springs are at the correct installed height (as in any application).....if you have a good machine shop do your heads they should be good but I would still check even after......it never hurts to know too much.

Like others have said you do not need a roller to acomplish the e.t goal you are shooting for, a stock long block will do it all day long with the correct tune. After 3 engines with flat tappet cam failure I went to a roller and I am glad I did. It took a lil longer to save up the money for the kit but I dont have to worry about wiping lobes and I have plenty of room to go much faster if I want to. I had the same goal as you mid to low 11 sec pass but also wanted the capability of 10's. It is easier to over build a lil and run slower less strain on the engine and if you ever want to go faster you have the parts in place......then its just more boost and better tuning......more or less at least no hard part changes.

Its just my opinion but if you can go roller and have your stock heads cleaned up and take your time building it. Check all your measurements twice. This will ensure a quiet roller engine that will last and leave plenty of room for going faster in the future. Also maybe consider some upgrades to the bottom end.....I went with all ARP hardware and a girdle.....again not needed but its there if I want to go faster.....I hate doing things twice.

 

[oddiesGN]

The whole reason for the roller cam and going overboard on parts is reliability not so much for power. My turbo is small, but I want the quick spool and better street driving then the bigger turbos, don't want my stall to be bigger then 2800. I do want power, not to run 10's maybe just the parts to run 10's making it more reliable at 11's. I kinda want to over build it. I want 11.3 in 1/4 and I know I can get there with alot of boost and stock stuff, but I want to run less boost and I want my stuff to last. Running better parts may not make it last longer, but it can't help. I know I need to work on my tune, but I hope that with better parts I can be off a little and still be safe instead of living on the edge all the time. Maybe I'm going about this all wrong, am I at all right or am I just getting parts for no reason? I could go alky, but 91 octane is the highest I can get here and can't get the fuel for the alky kit unless I order it online. E85 is my best choice right now.

If this would have been any other car camaro, chevelle or another muscle car I would have been happy with some mild stock power, but with every one on the streets thinking that the grand national is the badest car made I need it to hold its own and keep its respect that it gets. Can't have some kid in his new mustang, camaro or rice grinder to come close or even beat me. I know that there is always some one faster, but the guy that beats me will have a full cage no a/c and its not street friendly. I've been beat before, but the guy that beat me was more impressed with my car then his because mine was more of a street car and his was more of a race car with 5 times the amount of money then mine had in it.

I think its great hearing all these opions, it does make me question some things because I'm not 100% sure what to do and many of you have done this probably many times now, thats why I ask. I know I should have kept it stock and just drove it, but its something about this car that makes you want to dump money in it for no reason at all.

Thanks, Otes.

 

[Steve]

Do you already have a roller cam? If you have a good flat tappet with no issues I would just use ZDDPlus and go with the flat tappet. I really do not believe there is power to be had with a roller over a good flat tappet you just don't have to worry about it wiping. I had a mid 10 second T Type a few years ago and when I built the motor I used a 206/206 flat tappet cam and ran it for years with no issues. After about 3 years of running 10's I pulled the motor to freshen it and check everything out. The motor was in great shape and I just replaced the rings and bearings and put it back together except I installed a 210/215 roller cam as the only difference. I took the car to the track and it ran exactly the same. No adjustments were needed to the tune and the 60', 1/4 time and 1/4 mile mph all remained exactly the same except it had more valvetrain noise! The roller cam is nice that you don't have to worry about it but I do not think it is very much of a performance upgrade but is nice for piece of mind even though in 20 years of turbo Buicks I have never wiped a flat tappet cam.

 

[oddiesGN]

Do you already have a roller cam? If you have a good flat tappet with no issues I would just use ZDDPlus and go with the flat tappet. I really do not believe there is power to be had with a roller over a good flat tappet you just don't have to worry about it wiping. I had a mid 10 second T Type a few years ago and when I built the motor I used a 206/206 flat tappet cam and ran it for years with no issues. After about 3 years of running 10's I pulled the motor to freshen it and check everything out. The motor was in great shape and I just replaced the rings and bearings and put it back together except I installed a 210/215 roller cam as the only difference. I took the car to the track and it ran exactly the same. No adjustments were needed to the tune and the 60', 1/4 time and 1/4 mile mph all remained exactly the same except it had more valvetrain noise! The roller cam is nice that you don't have to worry about it but I do not think it is very much of a performance upgrade but is nice for piece of mind even though in 20 years of turbo Buicks I have never wiped a flat tappet cam.

Thats why I chose to go roller instead of flat tappet was for reliability not so much more power. All I had was the stock grind cam which was good nothing was wrong with it. I think lift was only .390 or so, the roller is .516 and more lift should allow more fuel and air in and more gasses out. I agree about the flat tappet cams being good, I have never in my life had one go bad in any car, but I might as well change it to be on the safe side. I have heard so many stories about flat tappet being wiped, maybe they did something wrong thats why they had a problem. I don't mind if they make noise as long as it lasts. I think that my flat tappet was making noise, don't think it had right length pushrods, preload might have been off.

What is the main cause of cam wiping? Is it wrong preload, bad cam or not using the right oil since the newer oils don't work good with flat tappets.

Otes.

 

[we4Mateo]

Do you already have a roller cam? If you have a good flat tappet with no issues I would just use ZDDPlus and go with the flat tappet. I really do not believe there is power to be had with a roller over a good flat tappet you just don't have to worry about it wiping. I had a mid 10 second T Type a few years ago and when I built the motor I used a 206/206 flat tappet cam and ran it for years with no issues. After about 3 years of running 10's I pulled the motor to freshen it and check everything out. The motor was in great shape and I just replaced the rings and bearings and put it back together except I installed a 210/215 roller cam as the only difference. I took the car to the track and it ran exactly the same. No adjustments were needed to the tune and the 60', 1/4 time and 1/4 mile mph all remained exactly the same except it had more valvetrain noise! The roller cam is nice that you don't have to worry about it but I do not think it is very much of a performance upgrade but is nice for piece of mind even though in 20 years of turbo Buicks I have never wiped a flat tappet cam.

x2, flat tappet here with 10k miles and 30 passes this year and oil looks great all the time. Flat tappet cams don't wipe if you add the zddp and they are very quiet yet powerful and budget friendly.

Otes, as far as fuel for your alky kit, 5 gallons should last you a year so one trip a year shouldn't be bad if you wanted to go alky. I assume there is a race shop somewhere. Otherwise some people just run other types of alcohol in their alky kits. E85 is great though, but I'd recommend a gas chip in the glovebox as well in case you ever get caught somewhere that doesn't have it.