Its Back!!!! TWINZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!

[turbofabricator]

ummmm... sorry Ken that was me. I still didn't receive the twin kit to try out :biggrin:

OH....That was YOU??? OK, it's in the mail.........REALLY!:biggrin:

When I set out to build my kit I wanted it to be completely bolt-on. It is. Easy to work on, nothing in the way. (ok, a few bolts are a challenge, but only on install) I also wanted to keep A/C, Cruise, power steering,ect, that's why I went tandem. I just wish I had time to tweak it and make it 60ft. It's now got a FAST system on it and NO (as in ZERO) time to touch it. 60+/wk at the "real" job, 7 days a week, multiple projects (WAY too many) for other guys, two houses to maintain, wife kids and dogs. I gotta pick my projects.
If someone wants to buy the car/system and can spend time with it, it'll run HARD. If it doesn't, send it back for your money back (less "rental" fee.)

 

[Pittsburghkid]

3g's is alot of money to alot of people and hell I know i couldn't afford it but if people knew that they could 100% buy one out the door bolt on ready to go they might start to thinkin hmm I can't afford the 3k right now but what if I sold all my shiny parts this kit is going to replace. So if I can sell on the board my big single turbo, headers, maf pipe, down pipe, possibly wastegate, possibly intercooler (if your not using a single inlet pipe from both turbos), intercooler piping, then you might have 1500-2k right there so then the left over 1000-1500k to pay doesn't seem all that far out of reach. The problem in no one is gonna sell all those parts just on the chance that this project might make it to market but be left out in the cold if it ends up not happening.

 

[JayC]

Talking about it in the present like it has any chance of ever seeing the light of day is pointless. The kit needed some refinement which would have happened with a second kit but since no one ever ordered one, the refinements never happened so you couldnt even use the kit we have to make jigs from.

This kit not being produced was a loss to the Buick community even tho Im sure no one but me sees it that way. I saw the dyno numbers and I drove the car. If this wasnt the greatest thing since sliced bread for street driven GNs, well, it was pretty close.

 

[JayC]

KISS method

And why do you have this method? Do you think 15 years ago there was a KISS method to run 10s? No, there wasnt. But things got innovated like injectors to support the horsepower, fuel pumps that drop right in, better turbos with better wheels, etc. Its simple because people pushed forward and developed new parts and refined old ones.

Now its easy to run 10s because all the hard work has been done for you. Ive been in this game since day 1 so I know how idiotic what you're spewing is. Sure would be interesting to see how fast you could go back when we had hardly nothing to work with.

You're welcome

 

[esinger]

I've never heard of or been called a "Window Licker" before, so don't even know how to respond to that one Justin84.

The ISAC is a great product and serves purposes of both alky and boost control extremely well. My buddy Pat (SloGN) that's been giving and taking some heat in this thread was the one to actually talk me into getting an ISAC.

Everything went well with the ISAC until I started asking specific questions from Jay. A lot of the questions involved hooking the ISAC up to my existing Alkycontrol system. Things were going downhill until Bob Bailey contacted me and offered tech support. With Bob's help I was able to get the ISAC up and running correctly and we both worked on polishing out some rough edges with it. If it weren't for Bob's help more than likely the ISAC would have been retired to a shelf in the garage. It's really an excellent product, but unfortunately it looks like the ISAC seems to be in a state of limbo state unless something changes. For it to succeed it needs strong tech support, instructions on how to replace the Alkycontrol kit and an option for a complete kit.

 

[The_Six]

I would still like to have one. My car is collecting dust right now I’ll bring it buy just tack the kit together I’ll do the finish welds here myself.

 

[JT'sV6]

I'm having conflicted thoughts about doing twin stockers. Especially after looking at the compressor map for the stock turbo. So I have a few questions before I bite the bullit and start building the setup for my car.

1. How do these spool compared to a single 60-1 with something like .80 a/r on the exhaust? or even a single 6262??

2. My converter is a little tight and rated at 3500rpm(flashes to 4100rpm). I can only power brake it to 2400rpm off the line before starts to push off the line(probablly need new brakes). I also have 373 rear end gears.

Would this be enough to spool 2 stockers to cut some decent 60' times? (concerned about lag) I'm needing low 1.7's- high 1.6's to hit my goal.

3. I know boost is the measure of restriction, but how mcuh would I need to make 400 to the wheels on a cammed 3.8l with port matched everything and 3" down pipe? Estimate?

My ultimate goal is to run flat 7's in the 1/8th and a best in the 6's in good air. Dont want to buy a $1000 turbo because I already have everything to build this setup.


I know there are a couple of you that have run this setup, if you have any timeslips of this setup that would be great! Real concerned on the short times!

 

[haywire4130]

wow, what a bunch of strokers. i feel bad for jay, the guy invested all the time and money to make the setup work, reported back with videos and hp numbers, answered every question asked of him (even the stupid ones that had already been discussed/answered, for those too lazy to read the whole thread), fielded calls from people with champagne taste and beer money, and now there's a guy expecting him to share what he learned and tell him step by step how to build his own kit? of all the replies in this 8 page (so far) thread, i think about 2 people "get it". grumpy (as always, it seems) and myself. i swear, we've lost our moral compass... people are getting dumber and more selfish every year. the new american way is hooray-for-me and f-you... it's a function of the poor economy and the fact that most of these twenty year old kids on here weren't spanked as children and have never had to work for anything in their lives. its like farting with your thumb in your arse, it don't make any sense. and "windowlicker" was definately appropriate! i'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of that one. too bad jay will probably never read this, if i were him i'd avoid this thread like the plague!

 

[JT'sV6]

I actually made my own thread about using stockers as twins but was directed to this one. I appreciate the fact that jay and his crew did the footwork on this setup and posted this in general tech. But imo there are still alot of questions that hasnt been answered in this thread.

If this was a thread in the for sale section of this forum I wouldnt dare to clutter up the thread with some of my questions. But since it was posted in general tech, Maybe jay doesnt mind sharing his success.

I'm not asking for a complete step by step how-to build. This isnt my first rodeo and I've built quite a few turbo kits for other vehicles.

My question is simplly the efficency of running stock turbo's to gain a good 60' time. Since i havent seen a timeslip on this combo, I'd be crazy(since my money is limited) to build this setup without doing my own research and asking questions.

I've read different things in this thread about jay suggesting a 3500 stall, and then say these have crazy fast spool. I'm just asking him for an opinion on my stall and gear combo. It is sometimes easier to compare setups to other setup that we are all more fimilar with. The reason I asked for a comparison to other turbo chargers ans the way these spool.

I'm probablly gonna build a tt setup, but not for sure If I'm gonna stagger a t-25 and a stocker or just do 2 stockers. (still in the research phase)

 

[WFO]

Are you going to run a turbo on each bank of cylinders or run them in series?

If you're running a turbo on each bank you'll want the exact same turbo on each side. You don't want a a backpressure/flow difference from one side of the motor to the other.

Think of your engine as two small inline engines connected at the crankshaft and size your turbos accordingly.

So basically if you had a 115 cubic inch engine would a stock GN turbo be optimal? Or something a bit smaller? Sure you could make it work with enough stall but if you're starting from scratch make your own informed decision.

The DSM turbos you mentioned really aren't a bad starting point. I'd start with 14B and go from there...cheap,available,internal wastegates to keep cost down...they were designed to run on a 2.0 engine with WAY better flow characteristics and RPM potential than a buick V6.

Later,Sean

 

[JT'sV6]

I wouldnt run 1 turbo per bank on a staggered setup. I would fab an x piping precompressors so that exhaust flow is some what equal.

 

[SloGN]

wow, what a bunch of strokers. i feel bad for jay, the guy invested all the time and money to make the setup work, reported back with videos and hp numbers, answered every question asked of him (even the stupid ones that had already been discussed/answered, for those too lazy to read the whole thread), fielded calls from people with champagne taste and beer money, and now there's a guy expecting him to share what he learned and tell him step by step how to build his own kit? of all the replies in this 8 page (so far) thread, i think about 2 people "get it". grumpy (as always, it seems) and myself. i swear, we've lost our moral compass... people are getting dumber and more selfish every year. the new american way is hooray-for-me and f-you... it's a function of the poor economy and the fact that most of these twenty year old kids on here weren't spanked as children and have never had to work for anything in their lives. its like farting with your thumb in your arse, it don't make any sense. and "windowlicker" was definately appropriate! i'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of that one. too bad jay will probably never read this, if i were him i'd avoid this thread like the plague!

The person to feel bad for is Shane. It's shane's money and time that went into bigwood racing and the Twin Turbo project.


BTW most 20yr olds can't afford a buick. I do agree that the average TR owners age is gettting lower but not by much as the price of these cars is rising and the part to keep them going is rising too.

 

[turboc87gn]

The words buick owner and cheap dont belong in the same sentence!!!!!!! There is nothing cheap on these cars.. The reason that rustang and camaro owners have no problem spending the $$ on thier cars for a turbo setup is that all the other parts are cheap and plentiful...On top of the fact that we all know it takes a much smarter person to make a buick fast than it takes other types of vehicles...The new car latest and greatest allure is long gone for these cars and the more $ than brains guys that buy things like turbo kits and superchargers and $hit tons of nitrous dont think about gns....We usually meet them at a stop light and embarass them!!!!! The average person has no idea where to even find a gn let alone how to work on one..Then you got the guys that had a gn back in the day when technology wasnt anywhere near it was today they bought a big turbo slapped it on didnt go fast as they thought for the $ spent and said screw it and sold it or slapped a chevy motor in it.....Thats y theres not a lot a people left to buy something like this..on top of the fact that the economy is in the toilet...

 

[JT'sV6]

Buick has 1 huge advantage over the newer n/a cars is it comes stock with a turbo. Forced air cars and WAYYYYYYY cheaper to make fast than n/a cars from the factroy.

ex, If you cant do your own fab work, your looking at over $4000 for someone to build you a complete turbo kit or a sc kit. Thats not including the fuel mods, tune, stall, shift kit, etc that you also need to make one drive fast in a straight line.

Now if you buy a cobra or something along those lines, it's built from the factory to make great power and run quick times.

 

[haywire4130]

as stated above, you shouldn't run 2 different sized turbos in parallel... the setups you are referring to which have them are compound turbos which use 2 different sized turbos in series where the smaller turbo helps spool the larger one. my brother has them on his cummins pickup. they call parallel turbos TWINS for a reason eh?