Long term project

[1dollardog]

Ok I have started a project that will probably take me a couple of years to complete (working on it in my spare time and with my spare money..). I've had the idea of a "rmts" type of turbo set up under a hot air for a while. For those who may not know what that is where the turbo or turbos are remotely mounted under the car in the stock muffler location and is plumbed accordingly. I'm planning on doing a twin set up using 2 stock hot air turbos. If I remember correctly that will give 120mm worth of turbo. Alot of what I have in mind is just that, in my mind. It may not be a science or even remotely possible so chime in with ideas if I say something off the wall. you won't hurt my feelings lol. And for the purests out there I definately wouldn't do this to my car if it was a perfect show car. It was mostly stock with a few minor upgrades (see signature).

What I have done so far:
I've removed the intake. I've ported it drilling into the "runners" opening it up as much as possible from the port side. I didn't have it totaly gutted. I didn't know anyone local that could cut it open and do what needed to be done and reseal it again. I want to do as much as I can "in house" and learn as I go. I have a spare back up incase I did something wrong and couldn't use the final product lol. I had a 90 made out of 2.5" exhaust pipe and I made a bracket and welded to it to bolt into the stock turbo mounting location. I had the 90 swelled to fit the hole pretty snug and for now in lew of welding it I sealed it with JB weld. I'll see how that holds up but for now with the bracket bolted in place and the JB, it seems solid as a rock. The 90 has a flange that the TB bolts right up to. The TB is almost in the stock location but sticks out about an inch more than stock in the direction of the master cyl. Throttle brackets and vacuum block all went back like before. I've removed the egr and plugged the egr hole and the threaded pipe end. I plan on having TT do a new tune on my chip and program this out. I'm just guessing that can be done. I removed the stock exhaust manifolds and replaced them with a set of Hooker headers. I drilled and tapped for the O2 sensor. I've had the muffler shop mate it back up with the mufflers. With the intake opened up some what and the exhaust free flowing it actually has noticable torque even without the turbo. I'm not driving it now, I just noticed that on the way back from the muffler shop. With the turbo and egr gone it gives the engine a pretty clean look too.
Whats next:
I've made mounting brackets for the turbos that will mount to the underside of the body between the fuel tank and rear end. The exhaust will feed in and out normally but I plan on using external wastegates instead of stock. The oil will be fed from the stock oil feed location and pumped back via a scavange pump. I may have to fab a resevoir for the oil to drain into that will be mounted under the turbos and then pumped back to the engine from there.
From here the psi air will feed back toward the engine via 2-2.5" pipes. This air will probably cool alot on the way back to the engine but I'll route them into a tt fmic then to the TB via a 3.5" pipe. I haven't quite figured out yet if a stock maf will take this or not.

There it is in a nut shell. I've left out many many details but that is pretty much what I'll be trying to do. As far as cost, like many of us I have many of these parts already laying around. The biggest costs for me will be the IC, wastegates, and scavange pump. I hope I don't get many of the "this will never work" comments but tell me what you think. I'd bet the first thing I here will be "why don't you just convert to the 86/87 set up". All I can say is that has been done to death.

 

[Jerryl]

Sounds like a really neat project.
I just saw a similar set-up on an old truck with an LS1 from a couple of young guys at the Houston Autorama.
They were runngin about 8 PSI boost with a newer stock OBDII ECM.
The sofware they were using was amazing! (Wish I would have write it down )
The ECM basically tuned itself and had triangulated KR sensor set-up, etc. Hard to explain, especially since I had no good understanding of it.

It was pretty much like a FAST, but with 3-4 times the resoultion . . . anyway, I was impressed.

All I can say abou the IC is this;
If you have all that inlet tubing, you can get some alky in there and forget the IC. The loooong piping will make a BIG difference in getting the alky vaporized and drop the temps significantly.

As far as the MAF;
Eliminate it with the TT SD chip.
That set-up will give you FULL adjustability over pretty much anything you will need.

As far as the tubing;
Go to 1.5" thin wall, insulated somehow.
It will aid big time in spooling the tubo.

 

[1dollardog]

So TT can program out the maf? I didn't know that. As far as the alky, Where would you locate the nozzle(s)? I have drilled the rear of the intake at the base of where the turbo originally sat and placed a summit nos nozzle and capped it. I was planning on running alky through that but I can leave it capped and run the alky elsewhere if it would be better. The 1.5" tubing that you spoke of; is that from the turbos to the tb or is that exhaust? Right now the car has 2.25" out of the headers and that steps up to a 2.5" and runs through shorty mufflers and from there it will enter the turbos at 2.5" each. I've seen similar set ups on camaros and vettes that didn't use a muffler at all but these are zero resistance so I left them on.
If the tubing will cool the iat enough I won't use an IC and keep it a true hot air car.

 

[Jerryl]

So TT can program out the maf? I didn't know that. As far as the alky, Where would you locate the nozzle(s)? I have drilled the rear of the intake at the base of where the turbo originally sat and placed a summit nos nozzle and capped it. I was planning on running alky through that but I can leave it capped and run the alky elsewhere if it would be better. The 1.5" tubing that you spoke of; is that from the turbos to the tb or is that exhaust? Right now the car has 2.25" out of the headers and that steps up to a 2.5" and runs through shorty mufflers and from there it will enter the turbos at 2.5" each. I've seen similar set ups on camaros and vettes that didn't use a muffler at all but these are zero resistance so I left them on.
If the tubing will cool the iat enough I won't use an IC and keep it a true hot air car.

TT has an SD "Speed Density" chip that uses the intake temp and the MAP sensor to calculate the fuel requirements. It is an awesome system, especially for such a project since you can adjust anything you need.

As far as the IC/alky;
My comments were in no way a reflection of "keeping it HA", but to make things a bit less complicated, and less expensive.
Either way, inject after the turbo to give the longest path possible for evaporation. Run multiple nozzles (Possibly an M2 and an M5 in each runner)

The IC of course never hurts the performance, but, I would personally add that right after the turbo when the charge is the hottest.
The hotter the temps, the more effective the IC will be.
After that, inject the alky and you will get back to ambient temps under boost.

I think of it this way (Example only );
If the charge temps were 200F, the IC will drop them to 125, for a 75F drop.
If the charge temp is at 300F, the IC will drop the temps to 175 for a 125F drop.
I would than allow the alky take it the rest of the way down, through the longest path possible.

You can also run some big injectors and run on E85.
Lots of possibilities, so one would realy need to set up the goals, which will lead to the plan.

The volume of the tubing must be filled in order for pressure to occurr.
The volume also changes with the square of the diameter, so, as small as you can get away with (to a point of course) is my thinking.

If the IC'd cars run a single short 2" tube, I would not be afraid to run a pair of long 1.5" tubing.
If you run the IC, tun 2" to it, and 1.5" out of it.

The necking down the exhaust may help keep the velocity up.
If you can, shoot for a 8deg mav taper on it.

Oh yeah, JB weld works fine to 200F/27PSI easy . . .
I am rambling . . . . . .
Keep us posted.

 

[charlief1]

Subscribed! I wanna see how this turns out and I wish you all the luck.

 

[1dollardog]

TT has an SD "Speed Density" chip that uses the intake temp and the MAP sensor to calculate the fuel requirements. It is an awesome system, especially for such a project since you can adjust anything you need.
Will I need to install an iat sensor?

As far as the IC/alky;
My comments were in no way a reflection of "keeping it HA", but to make things a bit less complicated, and less expensive.
Either way, inject after the turbo to give the longest path possible for evaporation. Run multiple nozzles (Possibly an M2 and an M5 in each runner)
The plan has always been to install alky. Any input on how and where is very welcome.

The IC of course never hurts the performance, but, I would personally add that right after the turbo when the charge is the hottest.
The hotter the temps, the more effective the IC will be.
After that, inject the alky and you will get back to ambient temps under boost.

You can also run some big injectors and run on E85.
Lots of possibilities, so one would realy need to set up the goals, which will lead to the plan.
E85 still not readily available in my town so I'll not plan on using it yet.

The volume of the tubing must be filled in order for pressure to occurr.
The volume also changes with the square of the diameter, so, as small as you can get away with (to a point of course) is my thinking.
This seems right. The STS system uses a 2" from the turbo to the TB and that was on a LS1 with a single turbo so it was flowing alot more air.

If the IC'd cars run a single short 2" tube, I would not be afraid to run a pair of long 1.5" tubing.
If you run the IC, tun 2" to it, and 1.5" out of it.
Since I'm doing a TT set up I'll be sending 2 pipes back to the TB and joining them up front via a collector or the IC. If I take 2-2" pipes into the IC and 1-2" pipe out that should keep velocity up right. The pipe coming out of the IC shouldn't be smaller than the id of the TB should it?

The necking down the exhaust may help keep the velocity up.
If you can, shoot for a 8deg mav taper on it.

Oh yeah, JB weld works fine to 200F/27PSI easy . . .
I am rambling . . . . . .
Keep us posted.

Thanks for all the input. Your not rambling. That is how ideas become reality...

 

[1dollardog]

The above post didn't come out as planned. I have some comments and questions embedded in there somewhere lol