LS or Gen 1 Small block?

[m6z]

Looking for ideas & opinions guys. I'm wanting a solid 9 sec. PUMP GAS street/strip car with ac/heat/ps etc. I want to be able to cruise around on pump gas. Race fuel at the track is not a prob. Would like to atleast run in the 10's on 91 octane.



Should I go Iron block hyd. cam 408 ls stroker with a 200 or 300 shot? There are some nice conversion kits with headers out now. The only real fabrication would be the wiring and the ac lines. (Would be using the factory ls ecm)

Or option 2

Dart little m based sbc 400 c.i., 23 deg heads with edelbrock victor efi intake and a fast efi system. If I was to go with the old school sbc I would want to go turbo or turbos. Are there any good prefabbed headers for a swap like this or is it all going to have to be built? Would be staying air to air intercooled. Is 800 rwh possible with a hyd roller? Turbo suggestions?

Or option 3 Same dart based sbc, but with a procharger.

I am wanting to keep this build around 15k and would be shooting for 700-800 hp thats streetable. Really looking for streetable combos. I know a carbed & nitrous solid roller gen 1 would prob. be the easiest, but that not going to be the most streetable option. Like I could drive it to work in the oklahoma heat with the ac on without a problem.

This is the car it will be going in.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ca...type-blackout-simmons-alot-more-must-see.html

 

[daverr]

i would go with the sbc. there is a ton of parts available for sbc.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

My $.02...

The LS technology is light yrs ahead of the SBC stuff.
The new, LSX block is <$2k. The L92 heads are KILLER, right out of the box. And, are <$200 ea, bare.
Add a good crank, rods, pistons, [A must for a 300 shot!], and UR GTG..
Take a look at the Jan 08 issue of Chevy HP. A good back to back comparo of the old school, vs the gen 4 engine. Pretty easy choice, since you mentioned a streeter and 9's.

Using the LS ecm is a BIG improvement over the old GN stuff. We use EFILIVE, and find an absolutely amazing amount of tuning capability in that box...[Take a look, here. http://forum.efilive.com/]
A visit to LS1TECH - Powered by vBulletin, could help w/ your decision. They have a hybrid/conversion forum there.
The DBW feature on the later engines, is nice, too. No throttle linkage. I'd use the 4L80E trans, and have total tuneability of that component, too. [Besides, it'll last longer.]
I'm doing the LS engine system in my 55 Chevy.. A 100% streeter.. Well, almost. A 100 shot may sneak in there, too.

 

[daverr]

The LS technology is light yrs ahead of the SBC stuff.
The new, LSX block is <$2k. The L92 heads are KILLER, right out of the box. And, are <$200 ea, bare.
Add a good crank, rods, pistons, [A must for a 300 shot!], and UR GTG..
Take a look at the Jan 08 issue of Chevy HP. A good back to back comparo of the old school, vs the gen 4 engine. Pretty easy choice, since you mentioned a streeter and 9's.

everything on a ls motor is based on a sbc. I dont know how u could say LS is light yrs ahead of sbc maybe if it had dohc,vvt,etc .

ive seen sbc in the low 6`s. not bad for old technology

 

[Chuck Leeper]

??

everything on a ls motor is based on a sbc. I dont know how u could say LS is light yrs ahead of sbc maybe if it had dohc,vvt,etc .

ive seen sbc in the low 6`s. not bad for old technology

"based on"??
Yep, it has 8 cyls, has in blk cam.
You think GM made all the changes, just to have a new name?? Guess again.

 

[kingots2004]

well ive had both my turbo combo was a 400 cube small block with a small chet herbert blower cam and little m block.had afr 220 heads and a blow-thru carb.in a 3000 pound car on 10.5 tires and 91mm turbo on 18lbs of boost non-intercooled.car went 9.35 at 122 miles per hour lifting early and getting on the brakes.this was in the quarter mile after that pass i was kicked off the track.i also have an 01 chevy truck with a 6.0 ls1 motor on nitrous if i had it to do all over with my car it would have an ls motor.there is a guy with a stock bottom end 6.0 with l92 heads and small turbo setup running 5.85 in an s10 at he said 15lbs of boost.on a STOCK ls motor and drag radials.ls motor all the way

 

[kenny]

I still can't believe no one bought your car.

Personally, if you're going to V8 it I would like to see a turbocharged LSx. Nitrous cars are lame IMO.

That said - if I had it, I'd just make the V6 faster.

 

[REBAL T]

Put a "Ford" motor in it.

 

[m6z]

I still can't believe no one bought your car.

Personally, if you're going to V8 it I would like to see a turbocharged LSx. Nitrous cars are lame IMO.

That said - if I had it, I'd just make the V6 faster.

Turbo would be nice, but I'm not much of a fabricator and paying some one to build a turbo kit would be way out of the budget. Also making the v6 faster, just doesn't make sense money wise. I'd be starting from scratch either way.

 

[m6z]

Put a "Ford" motor in it.

wtf? yeah thats not going to happen.

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

I would go with basically exactly what i have. I would not go with a 408 either. Get a good 6.0L with a 2wd 4l80 behind it like i did and you will be so far ahead of the game. Then build a forged 370 using the stock crank and a set of compstar rods and wiseco pistons or the brand of your choice. The stock crank has been to +1400whp in both the ohio boys cars, and they say the 370 will make more power than the 408 to boot.
So you saved $1k by using the stock crank, get a set of L92 heads with good springs and a decent cam. GMPP L92 intake and 65# injectors, Intake elbow with the stock TB. Definately go with a turbo, you can get a 302 SBF header kit and have the LS1 flanges welded on and your turbo kit is pretty much done. Put a 91mm Borg Warner unit on there and you should be able to get 850whp on pump gas pretty easily. I make about 575whp with only 9psi and no intercooler, 89 octane. I also use stock everything including the trans.
Oh, and with the 4l80, just a set of good clutches and a shift kit and converter and your done, no new parts are needed.
Gary
Gary

 

[m6z]

I would go with basically exactly what i have. I would not go with a 408 either. Get a good 6.0L with a 2wd 4l80 behind it like i did and you will be so far ahead of the game. Then build a forged 370 using the stock crank and a set of compstar rods and wiseco pistons or the brand of your choice. The stock crank has been to +1400whp in both the ohio boys cars, and they say the 370 will make more power than the 408 to boot.
So you saved $1k by using the stock crank, get a set of L92 heads with good springs and a decent cam. GMPP L92 intake and 65# injectors, Intake elbow with the stock TB. Definately go with a turbo, you can get a 302 SBF header kit and have the LS1 flanges welded on and your turbo kit is pretty much done. Put a 91mm Borg Warner unit on there and you should be able to get 850whp on pump gas pretty easily. I make about 575whp with only 9psi and no intercooler, 89 octane. I also use stock everything including the trans.
Oh, and with the 4l80, just a set of good clutches and a shift kit and converter and your done, no new parts are needed.
Gary
Gary

Ok, thanks for the info. I've spent countless hours on ls1tech here lately... There are a few guys running the l92's with good results and I was planning on using the carb style intake. Which brand/part number headers? Going to be going with a turbo 400 trans with a brake. Not going to try to make a od trans live at 800 rwh.

Do you have any picts of your setup? I'm running a CAS V4 front mount that I was going to try and use on this build. Are you still running ac? That a main concern with this build.

Thanks for the ideas and help. keep them comming.

 

[m6z]

Hey ITSNOTAGN I found you forsale thread. Looking through your pictures it doesn't look like the stock location of the ac compressor would work. Are you supporting the turbo with anything other then the headers?

Looks like quite abit of fabrication work. I allready have some 3/8" stainless header flanges. I'm going to be using the bhp mount and crossmember kit. So I will prob. run the f-body or the corvette bracketry. I'm going to be ordering a complete long block from LME or another one of the sponsers on tech.

I'm not much of a fabricator, That's one reason I was thinking of going with the procharger. I'm thinking that the c5 procharger mounting position will work on a g-body. (mounts high on the pass. side)

 

["Turbo-T"]

Put a "Ford" motor in it.

That would just make it slower.

 

[gnx7]

Parish on ls1tech.com built a Ford Fairmont drag car (gutted to 3,200lbs with driver) and installed a stock 5.3 truck motor/TH400 with the only mods being a used Z06 cam (204/218 duration) and better valvesprings with larger injectors. It runs a cheapy MasterPower T70 turbo and stock 5.3/6.0 manifolds flipped forward.
quickest stock ls longblock? this might be it!! - LS1TECH

One hand on the wheel running 9.49@138mph+:
1320Video - The Fairmont's new 1/4 Mile Time

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market has tons of 5.3 pullout motors for sale

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

As far as the a/c, i am going to make a bracket for it and mount it pretty much where the stock v6 one was. still using the v6 compressor as well. Just have to get that far. I do have the box and evaporator in there and it fits just fine, even with my 4" downpipe. As far as a 4l80, just a set of clutches and it will laugh at 800whp. Being it is just a t-400 with an OD it will take alot of power. There are quite a few cars running 9s with about 3800lbs on just a good rebuild. Also you would be losing all the greatness of the factory PCM with an electronic trans.
With anything this complex its going to be alot of fab work and hassle, thats why i suggest doing it all right away. A procharger would be alot easier and if thats what you want it is a very good idea. Just go right to a F1 with the 370 and L92 heads.
Gary

 

[m6z]

Parish on ls1tech.com built a Ford Fairmont drag car (gutted to 3,200lbs with driver) and installed a stock 5.3 truck motor/TH400 with the only mods being a used Z06 cam (204/218 duration) and better valvesprings with larger injectors. It runs a cheapy MasterPower T70 turbo and stock 5.3/6.0 manifolds flipped forward.
quickest stock ls longblock? this might be it!! - LS1TECH

One hand on the wheel running 9.49@138mph+:
1320Video - The Fairmont's new 1/4 Mile Time

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market has tons of 5.3 pullout motors for sale

Yeah that car runs very very well for the money spent. Though I know my luck and if I tried somthing like that I'd be picking up parts off the track every time I went. lol.

 

[m6z]

As far as the a/c, i am going to make a bracket for it and mount it pretty much where the stock v6 one was. still using the v6 compressor as well. Just have to get that far. I do have the box and evaporator in there and it fits just fine, even with my 4" downpipe. As far as a 4l80, just a set of clutches and it will laugh at 800whp. Being it is just a t-400 with an OD it will take alot of power. There are quite a few cars running 9s with about 3800lbs on just a good rebuild. Also you would be losing all the greatness of the factory PCM with an electronic trans.
With anything this complex its going to be alot of fab work and hassle, thats why i suggest doing it all right away. A procharger would be alot easier and if thats what you want it is a very good idea. Just go right to a F1 with the 370 and L92 heads.
Gary

Ok, I see what you mean. If you reuse you v6 compressor and lines, looks like it would work.

Yeah I keep forgeting that your refering to the 4L80. How did the 4L80 fit? Any beating of the trans tunnel?

Yeah I'd been thinking F1 & a 370 or a 408. (most of the F1 guys are around 400 cubes)

Don't know how many of you guys read gmhightech, The latest has the orange EPP car & its a fairly mild/simple combo and it making some serious power. 408, afr 225s, hyd cam, carb intake, F1

 

[kenny]

Turbo would be nice, but I'm not much of a fabricator and paying some one to build a turbo kit would be way out of the budget. Also making the v6 faster, just doesn't make sense money wise. I'd be starting from scratch either way.

All I'm saying is a LSx on dope is boring IMO.

To each his own, do what you do.

 

[m6z]

All I'm saying is a LSx on dope is boring IMO.

To each his own, do what you do.

Yeah I agree. Always been into turbo cars, and the lsx turbo cars can make some sick power. I would like go twin turbo 408, but I really don't think there is anyone in Oklahoma that would do a kit. I would have to find a shop in texas or else where that would take on that kind of project.

I might do a low comp. 408 now and get it all sorted out and running NA and then find somone to build me a turbo kit later on. Currently just throwing around ideas.