ls4 manifolds

[mindgame]

been doing some reading and see that both stock truck manifolds wont work turned around.. only only on the driver side.. i was doing some thinking and thought about the fwd ls4 manifolds.. its looks like the one that would be drivers side would clear better than the truck manifold flipped around.. anyone have an exp with these?

wont let me post pics or links without having more post.. im more of a lurker :smile: but i searched for a ls4 pullout on ebay and used those pics as a refrence..

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Maybe check over on LS1tech.. Lots of info there, on such stuff.

 

[02WS686GN]

1st off, if you have a 5.3 engine and can get out from under it, do it. They can be built to go and go quickly, but you're better of with the bigger displacement of the 5.7 LS1/6 or the 6.0 LS2. The 4.8/5.3 truck versions of the LS engine are great motors, but something I would only invest in if the engine was actually free and I had no plans on getting stupid crazy power out of it. Also, not only is the truck intake incredibly ugly, it's only good for very low end torque (ie, towing power) hence they're only used on trucks. If you don't have an LS motor yet, I would consider an LS1, LS2 or LS6 before I would even waste time on trying to find an LS4 or building a truck 5.3. The LS4 is designed specifically for fwd drive cars and they're actually the least powerful of all the LS series passenger car engines. (303hp/323lb ft) and the truck versions are only rated at 285-300hp (depending on what year and version it is) You would have an easier and least expensive journey if you found an LS1 from the '01-'04 model years for a couple of reasons: The blocks are stronger than the '97-'98 versions and they're already equipped with the better LS6 intake from the factory. Also, some LS1 vehicles from '01-'02 have the actual LS6 block from the factory. It's reported that 10-15% of '01 and 25% of '02 Camaros/Trans Ams had the LS6 block from the plant. Some '01-'03 Corvettes and all '04 GTO's (and possibly '04 C5's) had this block too. You can tell by the luster of the block. If it appears to have a shiny finish, it's an LS1 block. If it's a dull looking luster it's an LS6 block. Now an LS6 block only means it just uses the block, it doesn't contain the LS6 heads, cam, tb, maf and valvetrain, but it does have the desireable LS6 intake. But if you already own a 5.3 engine and want to stick with it, I'm pretty sure the LS6 intake will bolt right on her. Good luck with whichever direction you go!

Sorry if I came off as a prick or anything I just don't want anyone wasting thier time/money on the wrong stuff. Now I don't claim to know everything about LS motors, but I do know quite a bit. But like Chuck said, head over to LS1tech.com and ask around there. All of the big names in the LS genre are there!

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

I would have to disagree with most of that post. Please dont give out info your not sure about if you havent tried it. 100% stock 5.3s have gone over 600whp a few times, and that is alot of power.
The 5.3 is a very good motor. it can make 6-700hp with stock internals just like its bigger brothers. And with boost, the truck intake is every bit as good as even the LS6 , with even more torque. Still ugly as hell though.
And, if your building for boost, going to a LS1 or LS6 is backwards, for cheap, the truck motors are a far far better option. Lower compression, less than half the cost. I see 5.3s laying around for $6-700 all over the place, some yards cant hardly give them away. Add that to the fact you can do heads/cam and fuel system, and pay for half of it with the money you saved, then all you need is a block down the road to up te displacement. No flames, just dont think you really reasearched too much for FI applications.

With the LS4 manifolds, ive looked into it and it would work great on the pass side, going up and forward, but i think it would still be too low to have on the drivers side. I know of no one that has actually bought one and tried, so thats really your only option. Good news is you can still use it on the pass side so you wont be out any money
BTW, the truck manifolds really dont work on a g-body, the drivers side only works if you change the steering to rack and pinion. I would look into switching though, its about 50lbs lighter and feels way better. Not bad for $600 either.

 

[mindgame]

Thanks itsnotagn, i want to go with a 5.3 because of the upfront cost compared to a ls1 and its more boost friendly in stock form with the lower compression.. I did quite a bit of searching about the ls4 manifolds and came up with nothing. Only one of them would be usable flipped around, the other one has the 3 bolt flange for the downpipe of the fwd cars. I thought it was just a car without power steering that could use the manifold flipped on the drivers side. Do you have a link to some info on that?

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

search my posts in this section, i have pics of it up and everything. The thing about the LS4 mani is you would use the same manifold for both sides, one up and ahead, the drivers side down and ahead. I havent gotten to see one to measure, but it just may clear the frame, but it could just be too low. Get what im saying
Gary

 

[mindgame]

Beat me to it, I searched and found some pics. That was my main concern was the manifold sitting to low and hitting. The only thing that looks like it would be in the was is the thermo housing which doesnt look like it would be a big problem..

 

[mindgame]

These are some of the better pics that I came across..

 

[02WS686GN]

I would have to disagree with most of that post. Please dont give out info your not sure about if you havent tried it.

1st off, let me clear up that I thought he meant LS4 intake manifold for some reason, not exhaust, so my bad on that...

100% stock 5.3s have gone over 600whp a few times, and that is alot of power. The 5.3 is a very good motor. it can make 6-700hp with stock internals just like its bigger brothers. And with boost, the truck intake is every bit as good as even the LS6 , with even more torque. Still ugly as hell though.
And, if your building for boost, going to a LS1 or LS6 is backwards, for cheap, the truck motors are a far far better option. Lower compression, less than half the cost. I see 5.3s laying around for $6-700 all over the place, some yards cant hardly give them away. Add that to the fact you can do heads/cam and fuel system, and pay for half of it with the money you saved, then all you need is a block down the road to up te displacement. No flames, just dont think you really reasearched too much for FI applications.

I know a lot more than you would think, actually. I've been into the Gen 3/Gen 4 V8's since 2000, so much so that I'm actually sick of them at this point, hence, I'm working on getting my Buick going again. I've had 3 of them,(all LS1's) and I could name 50 people off of the top of my head right now that I personally know that has or had one. So don't talk to me like I'm just some newb that acidentially bought an LS1 Trans Am 15 minutes ago, thanks. So with that said, sorry, but I'm sticking with my guns on this one...


Reason why the 5.3 is so cheap and plentiful at the yards is because nobody really wants them, aside from their heads which can be ported and can flow just as much as LS6 heads. I have ported/milled 5.3 heads on my T/A. (its an all motor car, though I might spray it later) I'm not saying the 5.3 is a bad motor in general, it's a GREAT motor and can make GREAT power, but it's not something I would invest in personally, ESPECIALLY not an aluminum block version if I was planning on turboing it. Actually, everyone goes with the iron LQ9 6.0 block. Some go with the LQ4, like you, but the LQ9 is a little stronger. And if you have a 5.7 LS1/6 block, (which I would rather have over a 5.3 if I wanted to stay aluminum) then people usually upgrade to the 6.0 heads because of the lower compression, allowing higher boost. You can find LQ4/LQ9 motors almost just as easy as a 5.3 and for about the same price. Why make make lemons when you can make lemonade for basically the same cost/hassle?

As far as the intake, I would go with an LS6. Or an LSX if you have expendable funds. Though it makes more torque down low than the LS6 (like I previously said) that truck intake is absolutley hideous and you're better off with the LS6 for more top end power. Plus you'll have a little more room in the engine bay to work on your car since the truck intake is a lot taller and it'll look a lot cleaner.

 

[mindgame]

Guess I should have claified that all I was looking into that has to do with a ls4 is just that one exhuast manifold.. It would be the iron block 5.3. Im just wanting to see how 'cheap' i can get this done without sacrificing quality on the turbo parts.. A 5.3 can be had cheap enough that it wouldnt be a big deal to me to later build a forged 6.0. At that point I will already have everything going and the swap would be cake.. And yes I know turbos arent 'cheap' it comes up everytime someone on ls1tech someone says budget and turbo in the same post.. But it can be done alot cheaper than alot of people think if you have any sort of fab skills..

 

[gnx7]

To clarify 02WS6's post:

The 5.3 iron block is much much stonger than an LS1/LS6/LS2 block being that it is iron. The LS6 has "windows" in it for better cylinder to cylinder crankcase ventilation; however it isn't any stronger. The 5.3 is simply a smaller bore than the 6.0 iron block however dimensionally the same. A 6.0 block with stock LS1 crank and cathedral port heads has been high 6's at 200mph in a full drag Fbody racecar (WheeltoWheel aka W2W on LS1tech). Stay away from the 4.8 engine. Total garbage for performance thinking.

An alum LS2 block is stronger than an LS1/LS6 block and good for about 1000rwhp and a few hundred runs before the top of the cylinder walls begin to crack. Mike Brown has run mid 8's@165mph with a big turbo and 4L80E in a 3800lb Fbody with a 364ci LS2 block/stock LS1 crank, forged rods/pistons, and AFR 225's and a stock LS6 intake/ported stock TB with FAST fuel management. He has probably pushed the LS2 block the hardest and the cracking at the top of the cylinder walls is what he found. He is also running stock 5.3/6.0 exhaust manifolds and a custom crossover to mate up to the big turbo to run these numbers. Also the stock main caps moved and should be doweled to prevent cap walk. Being that a new LS2 block is only about $900 (alum) is a relatively cheap replacement if the cylinder walls were to fail. There haven't really been any crank failures (stock LS1) to note in the 1000rwhp level. They are very very strong.

As a testament to the flow capabilities of the 5.3/6.0 truck intake:
There is an AWD shortbed GMC with 5.3 intake/ported stock TB, stock coil packs making 1000rwhp. It is a 408ci (6.0 block with stroker crank and AFR 225 heads (stock from AFR) and twin turbos. Parish is the guy that owns it. He is on LS1tech.com. It is a 5,000lb truck and runs low 10's... he is trying to crack the 9 second barrier... not sure if he has yet though.

LS1 stuff is very affordable for the performance potential. Stock intakes/coil packs/TB's, cranks, blocks are great building blocks. The stock 5.3/6.0 manifolds make great turbo manifolds and make great power.

GMPP makes a nice iron block capable of supporting 2,000hp+ for those that need it. It does however weigh about 120lbs more than an aluminum block!

 

[topher455]

Reason why the 5.3 is so cheap and plentiful at the yards is because nobody really wants them

Um no. The reason they are so plentiful is that they were produced in a 2.7:1
ratio to their ls bretheren. I.E. to every 1 ls1 or 6.0 or 4.8 etc there are 2.7 of the 5.3 liter engines. So theres the reason they are so plentiful. Also according to GM the aluminum engines can be rebuilt a max of 3 times before the mains interference fit to the block is worn out. With that in mind, I think I'll stick with my 5.3 and if I scatter it Ill bore it out and make it an iron block ls1 that will handle more power than a ls1 can have a wet dream about.

Also you said the lq9 is stronger than the lq4. Which part? All part numbers are the same for both engines except for the pistons. How do I know you ask?
I have built 2 of each.

Im not trying to start a fight here but I will correct someone if they are spouting fallacies as gospel.

Also another thing to keep in mind about the 5.3 is the 96mm stroke is very close to the 99mm bore which makes the 5.3 motor almost on square. FYI on square engines tend to be absolute screamers and also have a tendency to pound on larger more sluggish motors.

Referring to some gm publications now for hp and torque for various ls engines
2001
ls1 310hp 340tq
4.8 270 285
5.3 290 325
6.0 300 360

I just bought my 54k 5.3 for $500 in my book the extra $1000 to $2000 for one of the others isn't worth the extra 10-20 hp 15-35 tq Ill just buy a cam.
Also the funny thing is the cam in the 5.3 is much smaller than the cam in the ls1 I bet if you swapped it the 5.3 might even beat the overpriced beer can motor. It wouldnt be the first time one of GM's pride and joy was whooped by something that was supposed to be infreior (GN vs. Vette anyone) But thats just my $.02

 

[mindgame]

Thank you.. Thats my reason for going with the 5.3 over the 6.0.. I think I have decided to try the stock manifolds turned around and flipped up after coming across some pics of it done befor..

 

[02WS686GN]

Blah.. I didn't even read the last three posts.. To each his own.

However this just caught my eye..

Referring to some gm publications now for hp and torque for various ls engines
2001
ls1 310hp 340tq
4.8 270 285
5.3 290 325
6.0 300 360

I just bought my 54k 5.3 for $500 in my book the extra $1000 to $2000 for one of the others isn't worth the extra 10-20 hp 15-35 tq Ill just buy a cam.

The LQ4 was rated at 300hp whereas the LQ9 (which wasn't available until 2002/2003) was 345hp, for starters. The LQ4 had lower compresion (9.41:1) to the LQ9's 10.1. The LQ9 also has thicker connecting rods as well. The LQ9 has a flattop piston and the LQ4 piston has a small dish to it. So motor to motor, you're better off with the LQ9, but the LQ4 does allow for more boost, since it has the lower compression. There are other differences too, like casting numbers and such, but I don't feel like having to look it up, just to continue arguing with someone over the internet that I don't know that thinks they know everything...

Also, the LS1 in the f-bodies were underrated at (310hp) they were really closer to 350hp, like they were actually rated in the Corvette in '01. As a matter of fact, a lot of f-bodies were putting 300-310hp to the wheels off of the showroom floor. It was rated at 310hp in the non-ram air fbodys because they didn't want to steal any thunder from the 'Vette. That was still a big no-no back then. Just like they did with the GN's back in the day. I think it's safe to say the LC2's had a bit more than 235-245hp when the L98 was rated the same but was lighter, more aerodynamic and still slower.. They FINALLY did away with that rule with the introduction of the '04 GTO. The only difference from the 'Vettes LS1 and the LS1 found in my car was the exhaust, the air box and the throttle body. F-bodies tend to put more down at the wheels then the 'Vettes too, becuse of the Corvettes drivetrain system..

If the 5.3 is such a great motor, then why aren't more people building them? Why haven't I heard of anyone taking their LS1's out of their f-bodies and vettes and putting in 5.3's? And when they DO replace them with another variant of Gen 3 V8 power, it's ALWAYS a 6.0 LQ9 block, and thats only because they plan on boosting it too Hell?

And another thing.. Not all 5.3's are iron either..

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.. I never owned a car with a gen 3 motor or anything. Nor have I ever built them, worked on them, helped on other people work on theirs, read about them or anything. Thats not my T/A in my sig either. I found that pic on the internet...

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

The LQ4 was rated at 300hp whereas the LQ9 (which wasn't available until 2002/2003) was 345hp, for starters. The LQ4 had lower compresion (9.41:1) to the LQ9's 10.1. The LQ9 also has thicker connecting rods as well. The LQ9 has a flattop piston and the LQ4 piston has a small dish to it. So motor to motor, you're better off with the LQ9, but the LQ4 does allow for more boost, since it has the lower compression. There are other differences too, like casting numbers and such, but I don't feel like having to look it up, just to continue arguing with someone over the internet that I don't know that thinks they know everything...

Also, the LS1 in the f-bodies were underrated at (310hp) they were really closer to 350hp, like they were actually rated in the Corvette in '01. As a matter of fact, a lot of f-bodies were putting 300-310hp to the wheels off of the showroom floor. It was rated at 310hp in the non-ram air fbodys because they didn't want to steal any thunder from the 'Vette. That was still a big no-no back then. Just like they did with the GN's back in the day. I think it's safe to say the LC2's had a bit more than 235-245hp when the L98 was rated the same but was lighter, more aerodynamic and still slower.. They FINALLY did away with that rule with the introduction of the '04 GTO. The only difference from the 'Vettes LS1 and the LS1 found in my car was the exhaust, the air box and the throttle body. F-bodies tend to put more down at the wheels then the 'Vettes too, becuse of the Corvettes drivetrain system..

If the 5.3 is such a great motor, then why aren't more people building them? Why haven't I heard of anyone taking their LS1's out of their f-bodies and vettes and putting in 5.3's? And when they DO replace them with another variant of Gen 3 V8 power, it's ALWAYS a 6.0 LQ9 block, and thats only because they plan on boosting it too Hell?

And another thing.. Not all 5.3's are iron either..

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.. I never owned a car with a gen 3 motor or anything. Nor have I ever built them, worked on them, helped on other people work on theirs, read about them or anything. Thats not my T/A in my sig either. I found that pic on the internet...

You are beginning to look like a complete tool. You, obviously, think you really know everything about LSx motors, but its clear that you dont.

1. Do you honestlything 0.59: of compression will make up 45hp?? WTF, it will not. The 45hp came from the compression change (about 10-12hp), and 30hp of timing changes. I did a tune on my 6.0L LQ4, and going from a stock timing map to my own, it went from 328whp, to 372whp, BTW thats through a 4l80.
2. EVERY SINGLE PART of the LQ4 and LQ9 are the same, except pistons. Same rods, same block, same heads. I had the 2 side by side as i have one of each.
3. People are building the 5.3s. if you look in the conversions and hybrids section of LS1tech, you will see that 75% of conversions use the 5.3, because its cheap. No one said anything about taking a LS1 out and putting in a 5.3, thats just stupid, like you sound by saying it. The only reason to use the 5.3 over the 6.0 is cost, and if you are already LS1 equipped, of course your going to go bigger.
4. The 5.3 and 6.0 blocks are pretty much equal for strength, and both are far superior to the alum blocks. There are a growing # of people making well over 600whp on completely stock 5.3s, read a little and stop posting up stuff if you obvously dont know
Gay

 

[gnx7]

BTW- stock pistons beyond about 550-600rwhp in all the LSx motors running forced induction will have their ringlands eventually fail. The pistons simply weren't designed for it.

Swap in some cheap Eagle rods and Diamond pistons and you have the basis for a 1000rwhp shortblock. Many run the stock LS6 cam in their shortblocks for perfect driving manners and the ability to make 1000rwhp+. This cam used can be picked up for $100-150 all day long on ls1tech.com. Production cylinder head castings have thin decks. Most people run aftermarket heads for the thicker deck and better flow. Out of the box AFR225's ($2400 approx) have made 1000rwhp+ time and time again. TrickFlow, AllPro, etc.

 

[topher455]

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.. I never owned a car with a gen 3 motor or anything. Nor have I ever built them, worked on them, helped on other people work on theirs, read about them or anything. Thats not my T/A in my sig either. I found that pic on the internet...

Honesty is the best policy. Thank you

 

[02WS686GN]

Blah.. Internet warriors..