Main (Rod) Bearing

[orion]

This is a really ****ty situation. I heard a ticking in the engine, brought it to the local GM dealer and after a diagnostic they found a ****ty bearing at the end of the #5 cyl rod. They suggest I buy a new engine estimated at 4,300.
This is retarted because i know there are other ways of remedying the situation. i'd have to shoot myself if i took the ***** (also extremely expensive) way out. I know to replace the bearings it would only cost me under $100. But i've never done any serious work on the buick. So pulling the engine apart on my own is out of the question. I have a few friends that are very mechanically inclined and are doing serious work on their own cars. (old nissan Z, Old Cougar) What would you guys recommend i do? Garage it for the winter and "learn as i go"?
or perhaps buy a rebuild. I purchased relativly modified. (Check sig) I could fix it and sell it, and buy something else. im in your hands....

thanks
-rob

 

[Matt]

To replace one bearing costs very little money and time. If that's the only one and you don't have a ruined crank or metal all through your engine now then you could pull the pan and put in a new bearing.

 

[orion]

sweet, could i replace all the bearings through the pan?

 

[Russ Merritt]

Absolutely! First though, how bad is the tick? If it's rappin, don't bother. You'll need to turn/replace the crank, and use undersize bearings. The oil pan comes off with the engine in the car so it's not that hard. If you do change bearings don't reuse the bolts.

 

[orion]

which bolts? the ticking goes away when the oil pressure is high (50+) i get a lot of retard on my scanmaster off and on upwards of 20degs

 

[Russ Merritt]

Sounds like you got problems. The main & rod bolts, don't reuse them, Get new GM bolts. Might save you a few bucks over ARPs and they work good. You get KR just running the engine?

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

Originally posted by Russ Merritt
If you do change bearings don't reuse the bolts.

they will be fine...factory used sps bolts in the i/c motors ...they are not much different from arp's

tick or knock?

how did they come up with bearing?

did they actually drop the pan and pull the cap off the rod or guess?

any sqeeking while its tapping?

I think the only time a 3.8 dont tick or tock is when they're not running?

you mentioned oil pressure has it dropped any over what it normally has had?

 

[orion]

1.) There is no timing retard when the engine is running. If i accelerate very slowly, it will not read any retard either. When im getting 20degs of retard im pretty sure i should be able to hear some serious knock but i don't. Just the same ticking described below.
2.) It doesn't sound like knock, it sounds like really loud injector tick, only at a slower pace.
3.) There is no drop in oil pressure.
4.) I have no idea how they came up with the bearing. They did not pull the pan. They must have checked each cyl for something, of which i don't know.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

slow pace and no oil pressure loss dont sound like a bearing

valvetrain spins half speed of crank so slow pace is usually valve train

might wanna pull valve covers one at time and crank let it idle and see if all rockers are moving alot and one dont have wiped lobe on cam

 

[orion]

im bringing it to a local shop, to ask 'em if they'll think they can do the work through the oil pan, i figure that'll save me an assload of money rather than pulling the little bastard and going in through the top.

 

[orion]

is anyone positive that a shop that knows what their doing will be able to replace all the bearings through the oil pan? i've been getting funny looks when i tell them it's possible. but maybe they don't know these cars.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

you need to really find a machanic...

dont just look at shops talk to some local hot rodders and stuff and find someone who is into performance work

dont fix what aint broke ... if the bearings are fine no need to mess with them ..everyone one of these motors you'll find different size bearings from the factory

they can be from standard to .002 under from factory

you would have to pull them out and see what size they are to start with before replacing them.
most likely if you just tell a shop to put bearings in it they will just get standard bearings and put in it which if you have .001 unders in it now you'll be in worse shape with new ones than old ones

 

[salvageV6]

Listen to Red on this one.

Also if you don't feel confident doing any work, bring it to T + M Corvettes in Manchester CT for evaluation and ask for Eric Rankin.

Or else to Jack Cottons place in MA.

RPE in Hartford for a rebuild or through one of the two already mentioned shops.

If you can lay the car up you can pull the pan and start the inspection yourself.

Don't change anything that's not needed in MHO.

How many miles on the motor and what shape is the timing chain in?

 

[machinegun]

I would say before doing anything, get a second opinion. If you are mechanically inclined or know someone who is, Here are a couple of things to look for. First get yourself an engine stethoscope. They are not expensive and easy to use. With the kind of oil pressure you are talking and the fact that this is ticking leads me to beleive something else. If it was a rod or main you would here it deep down more like a hammer sliding around the inside of a closed drawer. If this is the type of sound then probably down low. If on the other hand it sounds like a tick as if taking 2 plsatic sticks and slapping them together then you should look more at your top end. If the latter is true you may have simply a leaking pre turbo exhaust. If this sound gets louder as you increase the engine RPM, then look at the exhaust to start. Look very carefully as the manifolds and cross over all can leak over time. The biggest issue it the dreaded drivers side leak between the number 3 and 5 cylinders. This thing will drive you nuts thinking it is a lifter. Ther is quite a bit of restriction pre turbo and is the reason this are makes a weird noise when leaking. If all of this fails to lead you to something, let me know. Also using the stethoscope, listen to the valve covers. If you here the ticking here, then you only have to remove one cover to look. It could be a simple loose rocker shaft. Easy to fix. Then listen to the base of the lower intake. Move all around this to find the loudest spot. If here than you may have a bad lifter. This is also pretty easy job. Rmove the intake, valve covers, rocker shafts, push rods. Pull out old lifters, drop in new ones and reassemble as taken apart. Now if the noise is coming from the lifter area, take it apart as told above but before installing lifters very carefully inspect the camshaft. If there are any noticeable flat lobes or flaking of material, the engine will have to come out. Last but not least, checking the bottom end is easy. Remove the oil pan. Can be done in the car. Once the oan is removed grab ahold of each rod and try to move side to side. If you can feel it move thant it is bad. I would look at doing the other items I mentioned first though.

 

[orion]

Thanks for all the info guys, been a big help. I went to J&M corvettes in manchester. (are there two? you mentioned T&M) That guy was a straight shooter, he had buick pictures all over the walls, two cars on the premises and a rankin hat. Im definetly going to get the car re-diagnosed and since it's not knocking like a hammer in a drawer, and has plenty of oil pressure, going to get my money back from the little bastards at the buick dealership. Eric @ J&M actually suggested the same rebuild shop that salvage V6 recommended.

machine gun- i'll get one of those stethys and figure out how to use it. Im almost convinced it's not the main bearing anymore.

thanks to everyone, hopefully your info will help me avoid disaster (lots of my cash)

 

[salvageV6]

No it's J+M I always get the name wrong.

 

[machinegun]

Keep us apprised of what you find.

 

[orion]

Quick Update:
Hallmark Tire in Glastonbury CT said Jasper engines has a complete 3.8 ready to ship. Hallmark can install it for around 5,300. Has anyone hear of any cheaper alternatives?

 

[Russ Merritt]

Don't do a jasper engine PLEASE!!!!!!!!!! Do a search first, you'll see what I mean. Go see Jack Cotton IF you need a complete short block. 800-639-0531

 

[orion]

Eric from J&M is looking at a machine shop in hartford. I forgot the name of the place, but they may have an engine on hand for me. they estimated under 5,000 with some interal beefing up. How much does jack cotton usually charge?