Manual Transmission

[SVORay]

A T5 isn't .5 OD.

The article you posted is a poor example for putting a T56 behind a small turbo motor.

No mention of ever using 6th or even 5th for that matter.

A 2.3L that can rev to 7000 RPM, can put 4.11:1 rear gears in back and still be in 4th in the 1/4.

You put 4.11 gears behind a 3.8L and you will have to shift into non close ratio OD 5th in the 1/4 mile.

You first.

EDITED: I got bored and looked the guy up on Turboford.org. Anyhow, I don't think he's fired the car up but his goal is crusising around 2400 at 75mph. I'm guessing they had to use the 4:11's to help with the .65 gearing of the T56. He did mention a Dodge T56 has a .5 6th gear.

Anyhow, you can say what you want about that artical but that is in fact a T56 behind a 4banger! I still think if a 4banger can do it, a V6 should be able too.

 

[bison]

EDITED: I got bored and looked the guy up on Turboford.org. Anyhow, I don't think he's fired the car up but his goal is crusising around 2400 at 75mph. I'm guessing they had to use the 4:11's to help with the .65 gearing of the T56. He did mention a Dodge T56 has a .5 6th gear.

Anyhow, you can say what you want about that artical but that is in fact a T56 behind a 4banger! I still think if a 4banger can do it, a V6 should be able too.

With a .65 6th it wouldnt be a problem. The .5 would be though. Its over 20% difference. The ratio spreads are closer than they need to be for the turbo engine imo.

 

[GNVAIR]

Its fine if it fits. If not the yoke will hammer the rear seal out and bind. Ive seen this before.

I have NEVER had a problem. The fit is the same as when swapping a 2004r to a th400 in a Buick. The difference is very negligible. But its all semantics.

 

[chris718]

off base here but there were a few 78 81 malibus available with a stick shift,i had an 81 with a 305 v8 in 1988 .black with a beige interior and it had some kind of special emblems although now i cant remember.transplanted a 454 bbc and destroyed it in 3 days.put in a th400 afterward.anyhow the parts are there for the swap but i have no idea where there is one laying around but they did xist

 

[UNGN]

off base here but there were a few 78 81 malibus available with a stick shift,i had an 81 with a 305 v8 in 1988 .black with a beige interior and it had some kind of special emblems although now i cant remember.transplanted a 454 bbc and destroyed it in 3 days.put in a th400 afterward.anyhow the parts are there for the swap but i have no idea where there is one laying around but they did xist

I had a '79 Grand Prix with 301 4bbl/4speed. One of 232.

The trans was a 2.20:1 (close ratio) first gear, combined with a 2.73 rear axle. The clutch was required until the car was moving 20 - 25 mph.

It would have been neat with a chevy motor and a 5 speed (I'd probably still own it), but the 301 is a boat anchor and the trans/gearing sucked.

Similar to how a stock block 231 mated to a T56 would.

 

[GNVAIR]

off base here but there were a few 78 81 malibus available with a stick shift,i had an 81 with a 305 v8 in 1988 .black with a beige interior and it had some kind of special emblems although now i cant remember.transplanted a 454 bbc and destroyed it in 3 days.put in a th400 afterward.anyhow the parts are there for the swap but i have no idea where there is one laying around but they did xist

Hey Chris,
I have had a factory 4 speed cars It was a 78 Malibu (305 2 barrel/Saginaw 4 speed). Any of the 78-81 G bodies were available with the stick as it was the standard transmission. As far as what I have seen and read, the only way an 81 could be had with a stick was with a V6/3 speeds. I have seen numerous El Caminos with the stick, some Monte Carlos, a few Cutlass' (some of these came with the 260 Olds V8 and the T50 5 speed that was also used in the Monzas), a Grand Prix and a Lemans both with the 301 Pontiac V8 and Saginaw 4 speed and I saw a 78 Regal with a 3.8 V6 and a 3 speed. All are very rare. The linkage and pedals is reproduced now and Musclecars Only in Pennsylvania sells its. The linkage is for V6 and V8 Chevies, but the pedals can be used in any 78-88 G body. As a matter of fact, some of the V6 cars came with manual brakes which used the same brake pedal. I have had numerous G body stick set ups as I used to collect that stuff. GM used the Saginaw 3 and 4 speeds because it was cheap AND it afforded locating the shifter all the way forward on the tail shaft since reverse is located inside the main case. The reason why they did this is becase of the unusual placement of the front seats in relation to the engine and trans. Using a Muncie or T10 requires mounting the shifter back at the end of the tail shaft which wouldnt clear a bench seat unless it was moved pretty far back.
I still have some odds and ends laying around here including the console brackets from a factory 4 speed Malibu that had buckets and a console and several gauge packages that dont have the shift indicator (from factory stick cars).

 

[chris718]

my malibu had special badges and im splitting hairs trying to remember what it was called.just cant remember,not landau but something else.

 

[GNVAIR]

I had a '79 Grand Prix with 301 4bbl/4speed. One of 232.

The trans was a 2.20:1 (close ratio) first gear, combined with a 2.73 rear axle. The clutch was required until the car was moving 20 - 25 mph.

It would have been neat with a chevy motor and a 5 speed (I'd probably still own it), but the 301 is a boat anchor and the trans/gearing sucked.

Similar to how a stock block 231 mated to a T56 would.

The OE box in that would have been a 2.85 1st gear Saginaw. I still have some GM engineering paper work from 78-80. Lowest numerical ratio ever put into a Saginaw was 2.54 as used in a lot of the late 60's-early 70's non performance Chevrolets and Pontiacs. All of the Chevrolet and Pontiac stick cars from 78-81 would have a 2.73 rear diff.

 

[GNVAIR]

my malibu had special badges and im splitting hairs trying to remember what it was called.just cant remember,not landau but something else.

The only non Landau one I can think of would be an M80, but all of those were 1980 models and were white with blue "M80" stripes. There was another that I have seen pictures of called a "Black Sterling", but it was supposedly a 79 model. Here are pics on my webshots site. gnvair's photos and albums on webshots

 

[chris718]

cvery possible it is landau and my brain is short circuiting.......... i remember there were some 4 door malibu police cars around here that were converted into police cars as well:redface:

 

[GNVAIR]

cvery possible it is landau and my brain is short circuiting.......... i remember there were some 4 door malibu police cars around here that were converted into police cars as well:redface:

Not to rub salt in a wound, you do realize that was a rare car you had there?

 

[UNGN]

The OE box in that would have been a 2.85 1st gear Saginaw. I still have some GM engineering paper work from 78-80. Lowest numerical ratio ever put into a Saginaw was 2.54 as used in a lot of the late 60's-early 70's non performance Chevrolets and Pontiacs. All of the Chevrolet and Pontiac stick cars from 78-81 would have a 2.73 rear diff.

I'd have thought there is no way it was a 2.85. 1st and 2nd were almost the same gear and it completely sucked off the line.

VW beetles beat me for the first 100 feet, which sucks when you have a V8/4speed/4bbl.

Was 2nd gear a 2.X or 1.X?

 

[SVORay]

With a .65 6th it wouldnt be a problem. The .5 would be though. Its over 20% difference. The ratio spreads are closer than they need to be for the turbo engine imo.

Sorry, this is all new to me. I usualy just throw a gear box in and drive lol Anyhow, when you say .5 equals more than 20%, what did you use to come up with that figure? Also, which car are we talking about when you say a .65 will work? Also, I'm not sure how right this is but that T56 with the .5 is only in the Vipers. I guess the rest of the T56's are .65's.

 

[UNGN]

Sorry, this is all new to me. I usualy just throw a gear box in and drive lol Anyhow, when you say .5 equals more than 20%, what did you use to come up with that figure? Also, which car are we talking about when you say a .65 will work? Also, I'm not sure how right this is but that T56 with the .5 is only in the Vipers. I guess the rest of the T56's are .65's.

Almost any T-56 you would find in a junkyard is a 2.66:1 first, .5 6th box. All F-bodies except the '93 had a .5 6th.

Not as widespread, but available aftermarket are the 2.97 1st, .62 6th boxes.

The ratios in the GTO T56 have a .84 5th, which is close enough you could actually shift into it, (but it has a .57 OD), so 4.11 gears might make it worakable.

Even with 4.11 gears, shifting into a .74 5th under power would suck.

 

[bison]

Sorry, this is all new to me. I usualy just throw a gear box in and drive lol Anyhow, when you say .5 equals more than 20%, what did you use to come up with that figure? Also, which car are we talking about when you say a .65 will work? Also, I'm not sure how right this is but that T56 with the .5 is only in the Vipers. I guess the rest of the T56's are .65's.

.5 od is 50% overdriven. You will be at half the rpm at the same road speed as you would if you had the trans in 4th gear (which is 1:1) with the same rear gearing. Going from .65 to .5 od you will reduce rpm by over 20% at the same road speed and rear gearing. The .65 would work behind a turbo v-6. You are assuming it would have a minimun of 3.73's and maybe more gear with a 28" tire height. I never paid much attention to the OD ratios in the T56. I own a Z28 with one but never really paid much attention since the car has no balls at all in 6th. Its for economy only.The vipers are more overdriven than others though. I havent driven a Viper in a while but its around 50% drop doing a 4th to 6th ratio change.

 

[GNVAIR]

I'd have thought there is no way it was a 2.85. 1st and 2nd were almost the same gear and it completely sucked off the line.

VW beetles beat me for the first 100 feet, which sucks when you have a V8/4speed/4bbl.

Was 2nd gear a 2.X or 1.X?

Dont feel bad, my Malibu was sluggish off the line with the 4 speed and 2.73's
I installed 3.42 gears in mine and it felt like a totally different animal. But straight from the engineering papers:
1st 2.85
2nd 2.02
3rd 1.35
4th 1.00
Rev 2.85

The 3speed
1st 3.50
2nd 1.89
3rd 1.00

Its funny since the V6 3speed would probably kill the V8 off the line with that 3.50 1st gear

 

[Fast4Ward]

supposedly there is a Richmond 5 and 6 speed replacement for the T10 so it may be ok.
I don't understand what the posting of pulling in 6th gear came from. WHO the fuk gives a **** about such a thing. 5th and 6th are for cruising. end of that discussion.
I have owned nothing but manual turbo cars in the past few yrs. Currently have a 300rwhp 2.2 turbo Lotus head Dodge Spirit RT.

 

[GNVAIR]

I think the jist of all of these posts is that there is zero performance gain to be found on a 10 second or slower car for a modifcation that could potentially cost more than a built 2004r or a th400. Yes, rowing gears is fun, but is it worth making the car slower? Thats basically what anyone interested has to ask themselves. I have seen this with some of the supercharged and turbo charged Mustangs I have built. Yes, they will put more power to the wheels, but et wise, an automatic will drop on average of .8 in the quarter. Seen this on quite a few 03-04 Cobra's as well as many supercharged fox bodies when swapping from the 5 speed to an automatic. One of the other problems I have seen is getting a clutch to hold. Once the power exceeds 500 horses a standard single disc clutch also doesnt last too long. The only thing that has worked for street cars is a McCleod twin disc. Cost is $800 to $1100 depending on flywheel choice.

 

[UNGN]

supposedly there is a Richmond 5 and 6 speed replacement for the T10 so it may be ok.
I don't understand what the posting of pulling in 6th gear came from. WHO the fuk gives a **** about such a thing. 5th and 6th are for cruising. end of that discussion.
I have owned nothing but manual turbo cars in the past few yrs. Currently have a 300rwhp 2.2 turbo Lotus head Dodge Spirit RT.

The point about being able to pull 6th is why spend the money on a 6 speed if you can never use 6th gear.

A Richmond 6 speed can be had with gearing that would work 3.28 1st/.82 6th, but seeing how I personally broke 3 of them in a low 12 second car, I'm would be one of the last people to recommend putting one behind an LC2.

 

[SVORay]

supposedly there is a Richmond 5 and 6 speed replacement for the T10 so it may be ok.
I don't understand what the posting of pulling in 6th gear came from. WHO the fuk gives a **** about such a thing. 5th and 6th are for cruising. end of that discussion.
I have owned nothing but manual turbo cars in the past few yrs. Currently have a 300rwhp 2.2 turbo Lotus head Dodge Spirit RT.

I rasied the question after reading someone's comment about our cars not spooling or pulling in 6th gear. This simply put, seemed odd to me. The samething with a manual box slowing us down. I really wouldn't suggest anyone do this swap but I just can't see why it wouldn't work. Now I could see on a prefectly stock Regal but I'm pretty sure most of these cars considering this swap isn't stock. I futher more, would think you could find a close ratio gear box that would work fine as well as a cam shaft to help with the power band.