Mass air sensor in up pipe??

[Randy Greenoe]

I read a while back about putting the mass air sensor in the up pipe. What are the advantages and or dis advantages? I am using a LT~1 mass air and translator with a V2 front mount and a 70 mm throttle body. Is it worth going thru the trobule or not?

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Randy Greenoe
I read a while back about putting the mass air sensor in the up pipe. What are the advantages and or dis advantages? I am using a LT~1 mass air and translator with a V2 front mount and a 70 mm throttle body. Is it worth going thru the trobule or not?

How happy do you want the engine to be?.
From day to day, or even in varing traffic the discharge temp of the I/C changes.

The LT1 MAF has a heat sensor in it, so that it can most accurately measure the air flow. Why not allow the MAF to figure the air flow on the actual air temp of the air entering the engine.

It's a minor thing, but add up enough minor things and they do add up.

 

[mark b]

I think Bruce knows a lot more about this, but if you search the archives of gnttype.org you will find numerous discussions on this.

 

[bruce]

Re: Re: Mass air sensor in up pipe??

Originally posted by bruce

From day to day, or even in varing traffic the discharge temp of the I/C changes.
The LT1 MAF has a heat sensor in it, so that it can most accurately measure the air flow. Why not allow the MAF to figure the air flow on the actual air temp of the air entering the engine.
It's a minor thing, but add up enough minor things and they do add up.

Couple other points.
For every 1% reduction in intake tract restriction, there is a potential 2% gain in HP.

At high air flows it's alot easier for the turbo to push the air thru the MAF rather then try and suck thru it.

The air from the I/C is always PRESENTED to the TB in a similiar manner all the time. It doesn't suffer from under hood turbulence like one mounted by the air filter.

I'm probably at 15K miles with mine mounted there, and no hiccups. Other then from a bad oil seal in the turbo there really isn't a way to hurt it. And it seems some carb cleaner would cure that.

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Randy Greenoe]

Bruce ,THANK YOU I was hoping you would see this and chime in!It must be my lucky day to get two post from you on this Thanks!!

 

[azgn]

why not just get a chip that just eliminates the maf (as most digital fuel systems do)....available from MaxEffort..you have a build up that is way beyond worrying about where the maf should be...if you want to go fast , that is

 

[Randy Greenoe]

Woody sounds interesting.Who sells the chips to eliminate the mass air? And how much? The budget on this thing is long gone!

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by azgn
why not just get a chip that just eliminates the maf (as most digital fuel systems do)....available from MaxEffort..you have a build up that is way beyond worrying about where the maf should be...if you want to go fast , that is

Then get a Translator so you can adjust the timing.
Only if you rally want to be able to tune your system.

 

[azgn]

since there is no maf in Steve's latest chip, a translator would be a bit of a waste

I don't have his web site handy, but any old search engine will find it if you look for Max Effort

a lot of fast cars use his chips and it is the closest thing to a full digital system you will find

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by azgn
since there is no maf in Steve's latest chip, a translator would be a bit of a waste

I don't have his web site handy, but any old search engine will find it if you look for Max Effort

a lot of fast cars use his chips and it is the closest thing to a full digital system you will find

Please.
Tell me how you adjust the timing with a ME.

The ability of adjusting timing, in the translator is independent of the chip being used.

Owwwww, full digitial, what do you think the GN ecm is?.

 

[azgn]

well, I guess you can't tune a car without some external timing adjustments (prolly not... if running 93 octane)

if the translator works without a maf....so be it...I sorta thought that was what was being translated

digital as our ecm is......my definition of dfi is a system where one can adjust all parameters (without a maf) on the fly without having to burn a chip, from the keyboard of one's computer

 

[ijames]

It's the translator-plus that lets you adjust timing, the basic translator just lets you use the LT1/LS1 MAF. $100 difference .

 

[azgn]

so, you are saying the T+ can be used without a maf?

or does it still require a Chebby maf to function?

the latest MaxEffort does not use a maf

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by azgn
if the translator works without a maf....so be it...I sorta thought that was what was being translated

digital as our ecm is......my definition of dfi is a system where one can adjust all parameters (without a maf) on the fly without having to burn a chip, from the keyboard of one's computer

The translator plus can be used with a none MAF system and it will give the option for making timing adjustments.

Your definition of DFI is a new one, I have yet to hear of anyone using that. On the fly programing is on the fly programming. A good emulator allows programming changes on the fly with the stock ecm.

On the fly can generate as many or more problems then the hassle of burning chips, with on the fly you can make changes so fast they you can fly right on by the best setting, and never know it happened.

 

[chiken]

I was thinking of moving my MAF sensor but i use alcohol injection so i dont think i can. would the alcohol hurt the MAF?

 

[azgn]

Bruce, you are talking semantics here and, and as usual, make no sense

you know perfectly well I am talking about FelPro/FAST digital engine control systems which indeed allow setting fuel, timing,a/f, and with a wideband will correct

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by chiken
I was thinking of moving my MAF sensor but i use alcohol injection so i dont think i can. would the alcohol hurt the MAF?

Why, would it hurt the MAF?.
I would beat in the way that GM tests so many things, the they are designed to work with a parcially torn air filter and can take some debris hits. Or if your really worried relocate the nozzle upstream of the MAF. Maybe put the MAF right at the discharge port of the intercooler.

It would seem to me that cooling the MAF would just help get the metering even better since that is what the air temp is with the alky.

But, like any pioneer, you'd actually have to risk something, and the ridicule of so many.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by azgn
Bruce, you are talking semantics here and, and as usual, make no sense

you know perfectly well I am talking about FelPro/FAST digital engine control systems which indeed allow setting fuel, timing,a/f, and with a wideband will correct

Hahaa,
You make up definitions on the fly and then accuse me of making no sense, that's cute.

So the MOTEC, Haltech, Emerald, Accel, and other ecms don't qualify by your defintion now either, since you're now stipulating FelPro/FAST.

And now you don't want to acknowledge Emulators, which by your first definition were acceptable.

 

[chiken]

now hold on a minute. if i bypass the flux capasitor and fluxuate the primary longitute valve my calculations determine that perimeter a/13x would therefor void the mass airflow sensor. sorry i had to write that. you guys are way over my head. you damn school learnt boys is way more learnt then me.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by chiken
now hold on a minute. if i bypass the flux capasitor and fluxuate the primary longitute valve my calculations determine that perimeter a/13x would therefor void the mass airflow sensor. sorry i had to write that. you guys are way over my head. you damn school learnt boys is way more learnt then me.

Now you lost me........
Ya must be a youngin.
I thought a HS Diploma was enough, Oh Well. Least the school of hard knocks was open......