My fastest pump gas time......

[Grandnat]

Also my fastest ever!

Last night at the lone star performance buick club race I finally got a chance to take out my car and see what she would do. It was Hot and humid (85ish) but she was feeling GOOD...

I put 4 gallons of ****ty 93 octane pump gas from my local Racetrac gas station and took the trip to the local 1/8th mile track.


I had the boost set to 16.5 psi and decided to let her rip!!

7.31 @ 95.12 !!!!!


This is a full weight T-type. ~3650lbs with me in it!!


I showed no knock and the airfuel was 11.8 to 1 the whole way.

my combo..

PT54
CAS V2
212/212 flat tappet
FAST engine management.
Champion GN1 heads (unported)
accufab plenum
RJC power plate
stock throttle body
stock headers
9" ART CARR (fake one)
28 x 9" slicks

heres the time slip..

60ft ------1.6814
330ft ------4.7253
1/8 ET ------7.3121
1/8 MPH ------95.12


also..... this was no octane boosters...no ALKY....no xylene nothing..


just plain ole pump gas!

I was very pleased..


any guesses on what it will do with 24 psi and race fuel?


edited to list some more mods I forgot to mention.

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

Originally posted by Grandnat



I had the boost set to 16.5 psi and decided to let her rip!!

7.31 @ 95.12 !!!!!


This is a full weight T-type. ~3650lbs with me in it!!


I showed no knock and the airfuel was 11.8 to 1 the whole way.




also..... this was no octane boosters...no ALKY....no xylene nothing..


just plain ole pump gas!

.

Why such low boost,and why would you need any octane with such low boost..

 

[Grandnat]

Why such low boost,and why would you need any octane with such low boost..

because it is a brand new motor.... I didn't want to blow it up .... so I though I would start out small.

and to answer your second question... obviously I did not need any more octane. However it seems that people on this board think pump gas means pump gas and alky or xylene or propane etc etc.

So I was just making a point.

but, thanks for your positive post!!!!


I personally like going fast with pump gas.. call me crazy but I really enjoy the challenge.

My goal is 6.9x with pump gas. and until chevron starts sellin' 116 at the pumps..... I am sticking with 93.

I will run race gas to see what she will do, however since this is a STREET car I will run street gas....when it is a RACE car I will run RACE gas.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Very cool.I don't know what my car would run on a real hard pass on 93 but it has done 7.5s on 93 and no alky.I like to run the A/F kind of fat on pump for safety.I wanted to do the same thing ,but I still have not found the limit with the race gas.Cant get better than a 1.6x 60'.I think maybe 6.8-6.7 will be max for my present motor.

Next year I plan on running mid 6s on 93 octane.Of course the motor will not be a stock block setup.The combo will be like this:

TA block(bored to 4") and heads(ported) 4.3?
Eagle crank
ATR rods
224/224 hyd. roller
T&D rockers
70 something turbo (maybe 71gtq or a 76 still thinking about it)
Sheetmetal intake w/70mm TB
all the supporting parts in sig like injectors,headers,FMIC and such.The longblock is almost done.Just need to get the car ready...you know,roll bar and stuff.

BTW Mike,is this the same t-type or a new one?

Patrick

 

[Grandnat]

Hey Patrick!

I was hopeing to see you out there.


No, it is the same car, I just added a stall and upgraded from the TE-44 to a TE-54

I also freshened up the motor with some TRW pistons.


other than that, it is the same combo.


later man.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Great runs man, congrats. Yeah nobody realizes that you can go fast on pump gas with the right set up, I have been 11.97 and to back it up an 11.93 at 113.5 at 17-18 psi, 19* timing 93 octane and nittos. I get really tired of everybody talking about how you need C16 to run decent in a TR and its just not true. Congrats again man

 

[2 SLOW]

7.31 in the 1/8th = 11.48 in the 1/4. Not bad with that combo. And 16.5 lbs on 93 pump is about as far as you should go. You asked what you should do at 24lbs boost. I'd say about 10.8 - 10.9 which would be about 6.9 in the 1/8th. If you put alky on your car you can run 24lbs anytime you want and turn those numbers. If you want to do it on just 93 pump gas you will need a 76 turbo, higher stall, and bigger injectors and tune, tune, tune.

I have a friend who drove his car 40 miles to the track on ET Streets and ran 10.65 at 126 on 92 pump gas with no adders. Were talking Stage I stroked to 266 inches, GN1 ported heads, 76 turbo, front mount, FAST, 96 lb injectors, Hogans intake, 70mm throttle body, 218 flat tappet cam, and 16lbs boost at 20 degrees timing. That was last October. He put Razors progressive kit on this spring and with 24 lbs boost went 10.17 at 132.

It's really just a matter of how much $$$ you want to spend.

 

[Marc87GN]

Grandnat,

I think that looks awesome. Those are the numbers I'm looking for on pump gas. The GN I just bought will be a 100% street car. I did all of the drag racing I will ever do with my GT and spent far too much money fixing, upgrading and replacing parts. Your combo is what I'm looking for. I ran mid 11s @ 120+ mph all day with my GT on pump gas, but I had built engine, P&P heads, T-76 and Accel DFI Gen VII.

Anyone can run fast on C-16, but it definitely takes more work and a solid combination to have an 11 sec street car on pump gas.

Great job.

 

[Grandnat]

Originally posted by 2 SLOW
7.31 in the 1/8th = 11.48 in the 1/4. Not bad with that combo. And 16.5 lbs on 93 pump is about as far as you should go. You asked what you should do at 24lbs boost. I'd say about 10.8 - 10.9 which would be about 6.9 in the 1/8th. If you put alky on your car you can run 24lbs anytime you want and turn those numbers. If you want to do it on just 93 pump gas you will need a 76 turbo, higher stall, and bigger injectors and tune, tune, tune.

I respectfully disagree. I do not think this is as far as I can go on pump gas.

I also do not think I need a bigger turbo yet.

I understand your concerns though 2 SLOW, and I do appreciate that.

JDSfastGN and Patrick: Thanks for the thumbs up!!!!

 

[Lee_Burough]

Awesome tuning!

You're obviously better at tuning than most of us

We have some pump gas times posted on our TTA FAQ list ....You might enjoy studying their combinations

Is Alchy your next modification? Or, did I miss it in your combo?

 

[Grandnat]

Re: Awesome tuning!

Originally posted by lburou


Is Alchy your next modification? Or, did I miss it in your combo?

No, I do not plan on running alcohol in my car.

 

[Grandnat]

IBUROU I went ahead and filled out your questionaire.... I know I am not a TTA but I went ahead anyway.



Details of the run:
60' 1.6814
330' 4.7253
1/8 7.3121
MPH 95.12
1000' N/A
1/4 N/A
MPH N/A

Screen Name or Car Number Here
EMPTY WEIGHT: 3650
BLOCK: Stock
HEADS: GN1 (217 cfm intake)
CAM: 212/212 flat tappet
TRANSMISSION: stock (rebuilt new clutches)
TORQUE CONVERTER: 3200 stall 9" art carr
DIFFERENTIAL: stock
INTERCOOLER: CAS V2
THROTTLE BODY: Stock
RJC POWER PLATE: yes
INJECTORS: 83
THERMOSTAT:160
TURBOCHARGER: PTE 54
VALVE SPRINGS: came with cam
MAF: N/A
DOWN PIPE: Terry houston 3"
EXHAUST: Dump
FUEL PUMP: walbro 340 (single)
FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR: POS
FUEL PRESSURE: 43 vac off
ALCHOHOL INJECTION:NO
PROPAIN INJECTION:NO
NITROUS:NO
AIR FILTER AND AIR INTAKE: none
TIRE DESIGN, SIZE & AIR PRESSURE: MT 28" x 9"
AIR BAG(s): NONE
SUSPENSION: STOCK
SCAN TOOL: FAST
FUEL: racetrac 93 octane
CHIP: N/A
CHIP TIMING: 20.75
KNOCK RETARD: 0
OXYGEN SENSOR VOLTAGE: 11.8 to 1
EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE: N/A
TRACK ELEVATION: 500 ft
TEMPERATURE: 85+
PEAK BOOST: 16.5
BOOST AT LAUNCH: 5psi (all the track would hold)
MILES ON THE CAR/ENGINE: N/A

 

[sixgun86gn]

Mike your car has always ran real good.I am glad you stepped up on that turbo and stall finally.

I did not get to make it out last saturday for 2 reasons 1) no trailer and 2) was in east texas.I plan on running just 93 gas the rest of the season for less stress on the motor and less $$ out of my pocket.

I finally bought a WB o2 kit and soon after I get it installed I hope to nail down the perfect tune.I have been toying with the idea of putting this 4.1 production block in the car and seeing what it can do,it has a 218/218 comp cam,JE pistons and a turbo crank.The one in the car now has a NA crank LOL!The 4.1 is the one I had put together for my chevy LUV project,but I am so tempted to try it out.I think I will put it in this next few weekends.

HEY! I also heard that you wrecked that car,that bummed me out to hear that.Glad to hear it is OK.

P.S. About time to have that pump gas match up aint it? The way I see it I have some car lengths to get back from last time .

 

[Grandnat]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn

Mike your car has always ran real good.I am glad you stepped up on that turbo and stall finally.

HEY! I also heard that you wrecked that car,that bummed me out to hear that.Glad to hear it is OK.

P.S. About time to have that pump gas match up aint it? The way I see it I have some car lengths to get back from last time .

Thanks for the kind words..


and if by wrecked you mean a drunk driver ran into my car while it was parked infront of my friends house..... then yes I wrecked it.


If you want to run on pump gas let me know when, I am always down for a good race.

there is always the buick meet but if you preffer the street....I can understand that..... we can both drive to racetrac and fill up before the race.


later man,

 

[sixgun86gn]

I was teasing really.I do all my racing at the track these days,too risky to get down on the street now.I will hopefully see you at the next meet and my car won't give me any problems hopefully.Has been running kind of weird lately and can't seem to figure it out.Thats why I am thinking about swapping motors for now.

Where did you get your FAST system from,and who did the tuning?I would guess Bill Duke or Greg Kring?I will be needing to do that when I do the TA motor and I have no clue how to use a FAST system.I am still using the stock computer and it sucks for tuning really at this level.The stock ignition doesnt seem to be holding up either.

I think that running a bigger cam allows making more power at less boost and lower IAT's.Your combo is perfect for pump gas with the aluminum heads and 212 cam .I would bet you could run 18#or a little more with no knock just due to efficiency.I can with the iron heads,but I like to keep it around 16# in case I get a boost spike or creep.I would say you will see a 7.0 with a good launch.Good luck on reaching your goal and I will be happy to help you out anytime you need it.

Later man.

 

[Grandnat]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
I was teasing really.I do all my racing at the track these days,too risky to get down on the street now.I will hopefully see you at the next meet and my car won't give me any problems hopefully.Has been running kind of weird lately and can't seem to figure it out.Thats why I am thinking about swapping motors for now.

Where did you get your FAST system from,and who did the tuning?I would guess Bill Duke or Greg Kring?I will be needing to do that when I do the TA motor and I have no clue how to use a FAST system.I am still using the stock computer and it sucks for tuning really at this level.The stock ignition doesnt seem to be holding up either.

I think that running a bigger cam allows making more power at less boost and lower IAT's.Your combo is perfect for pump gas with the aluminum heads and 212 cam .I would bet you could run 18#or a little more with no knock just due to efficiency.I can with the iron heads,but I like to keep it around 16# in case I get a boost spike or creep.I would say you will see a 7.0 with a good launch.Good luck on reaching your goal and I will be happy to help you out anytime you need it.

Later man.

I bought it from Billy, but I have done 100% of the tuning by myself.

I just took the demo file and changed it around until the car started to behave. There was a learning curve and I still have not got it mastered, but I have been very happy with the results.

I just started out at 12.5 psi and worked my way up...adding fuel as I went along.... and being careful to never see any knock.

I try to keep the correction below 5% ... WOT is a breeze. It was the startup, idle and idle-in-gear that was the real pain. I still haven't got it perfect.

BTW your stock ignition shouldn't be a problem until you are running 8s in the 1/4 the ignition is overkill in these cars.
unless your saying that yours is about to fail.


and about the cam, I do not know how much difference there actually is... I mean it is a flat tappet 212/212... but If I had a stocker I would probably run it.

and hey man, if you ever need some help with the FAST system let me know.... I am the furthest thing from an expert, but I have overcome some obsticles that I have encountered during the tuning learning curve.

later

 

[sixgun86gn]

Cool,glad to hear that it isnt extremely hard to work with.I was always under the impression that they were hard to learn by yourself.

The stock ignition is ok I guess.I just can't seem to keep the boost from blowing out the spark lately,like it isnt strong enough.I have thought about an MSD DIS-4 box.I have the plugs gapped at .030 right now.I don't know what others set them to for higher boost.I have mine set at 25# on the 114 and it runs pretty good except for a little sputtering in higher rpms.

I will be glad to have your help when I get the FAST system and TA motor installed.I think it would be better to learn from someone that isnt a pro but has done well with it.I don't want to have to depend on an expert to tune my car for me.Good luck with the ETs and keep tuning that beast.

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by Grandnat
I respectfully disagree. I do not think this is as far as I can go on pump gas.

I think what he meant was that at 16.5 PSI boost and the motor leaned out making the most power.. there is only sooo much that can be done with limited octane.

Your tuning options are timing, fuel, and airflow. Those are the same as apply to everybody else. A bigger turbo will have better airflow management no? As would a bigger cam.. and a better set of heads..So on 93 octane how much boost can you run and make power? So given the parts used.. your options get limited really fast.

See the arguement of I want to race it like I drive it.. I can understand. But there are other methods of making more power with what you have.. besides the expense of bigger turbo, bigger IC, bigger cam, etc...

I take the cheese way out and run 98.4 in the 1/8 with a bone stock IC, and a 51 turbo. Yes on 93 and juice. maybe I could get 90-91 in the 1/8 on 93 alone given the parts used.. but no way can I make up the 7mph difference unless the boost was upped.. or I spent a considerable amount on improving airflow.

So its all good... whether you spend 10000 or 1000.. whatever makes you happy is what counts.

Congrats on the times, its great to see money and time spent start paying off. Would be neat to get the boost up and really rip some times.

Peace