Mythbusters tackles the plane/treadmill

[Pitbozz]

Simple as that huh, WRONG I am sorry but you are wrong. You are saying that the planes engine provide thrust and keep the plane motionless? Why aren't the engines making the plane move forward, after all they are pushing air.

That isn't what he is saying. Re-read it. He is saying the plane will take off.

 

[at7we2]

Hey here's something no one has mentioned.....

THE TREADMILL IS IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!


....ok, so maybe someone did mention 5 bu-zillion times already. THAT'S BECUASE IT'S CORRECT!!!

we need the "banghead" smiley on this forum.

 

[jpratt]

That isn't what he is saying. Re-read it. He is saying the plane will take off.

fixed it, my bad.

The plane boss, the plane.


It flies

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Hey here's something no one has mentioned.....

THE TREADMILL IS IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!


....ok, so maybe someone did mention 5 bu-zillion times already. THAT'S BECUASE IT'S CORRECT!!!

we need the "banghead" smiley on this forum.

because the plane is not pushing of it.
its pushing/pulling off of the air.

 

[87GNSteve]

Mythbusters will finally put to rest the airplane on a treadmill question that has haunted the internet for years and years. The question:

Imagine a plane is sitting on a massive conveyor belt, as wide and as long as a runway. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the plane, moving in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?

The plane will not fly.
Most folks are confusing thrust with lift. Engine speed with ground speed.
The conveyor belt with its exact matching ability will keep the plane at a standstill with the engines screaming way past take off speeds.

To those that say the conveyor is irrelevant? How when it is really the jet engines that are since the original says plane it could be a prop, glider, whatever unless there is air movement at the wings there is no lift. Why do you think the Flaps are there?
Just like a kite sitting on the sandy beach a wind gust comes and it flies, without a gust you have to run down the beach with it.

 

[Pitbozz]

The plane will not fly.
Most folks are confusing thrust with lift. Engine speed with ground speed.
The conveyor belt with its exact matching ability will keep the plane at a standstill with the engines screaming way past take off speeds.

To those that say the conveyor is irrelevant? How when it is really the jet engines that are since the original says plane it could be a prop, glider, whatever unless there is air movement at the wings there is no lift. Why do you think the Flaps are there?
Just like a kite sitting on the sandy beach a wind gust comes and it flies, without a gust you have to run down the beach with it.

Steve, the treadmill isirrelevant because it will NOT prevent the plane from moving down the runway/treadmill as it normally would. Reference the video link I posted and the rollerblade scenario I posted.

 

[noslo6]

The plane will not fly.
Most folks are confusing thrust with lift. Engine speed with ground speed.
The conveyor belt with its exact matching ability will keep the plane at a standstill with the engines screaming way past take off speeds.

To those that say the conveyor is irrelevant? How when it is really the jet engines that are since the original says plane it could be a prop, glider, whatever unless there is air movement at the wings there is no lift. Why do you think the Flaps are there?
Just like a kite sitting on the sandy beach a wind gust comes and it flies, without a gust you have to run down the beach with it.

I'm tired of arguing this. Some people just don't get it. The plane achieves takeoff speed by it's engines creating thrust and pushing against or pulling against the air - moving the plane forward. The treadmill can spin the wheels 2 billion mph in reverse, the plane is not propelled forward by the wheels like a car.

 

[tom j]

The plane will not fly.
Most folks are confusing thrust with lift. Engine speed with ground speed.
The conveyor belt with its exact matching ability will keep the plane at a standstill with the engines screaming way past take off speeds.

To those that say the conveyor is irrelevant? How when it is really the jet engines that are since the original says plane it could be a prop, glider, whatever unless there is air movement at the wings there is no lift. Why do you think the Flaps are there?
Just like a kite sitting on the sandy beach a wind gust comes and it flies, without a gust you have to run down the beach with it.

EXACTLY!!

If the treadmill has the ability to match the ground speed it won't fly

BUT!!

If it matches air speed then there would be lift from well the air speed and it will fly.
If you see how mythbusters is going to it and they match the car speed with the air speed of the plane then it will fly, if they were going read the speed of the planes tires and match it to the speed of the cars tires then it won't fly.

The question does not give enough(details) info to clearly answer it.

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

WOW, i cant beleive this is almost 50%, i am completely ashamed of the intelligence level on this forum

ANOTHER EXAMPLE
YOU, now picture this yourself, YOU have on a pair of rollerskates, you have a kite in your hand, okay, imagine!
Step onto a big ass treadmill, your skating along at 5mph, the treadmill is going 5mph the other way, right?
YOU WONT MOVE
NOW, theres a rocket strapped to your back, your not moving, cause you and the treadmill are going 5mph
IGNITE THE ROCKET
DO ANY OF YOU HONESTLY THINK THE TREADMILL GIVES A SH*T HOW FAST YOUR ROLLERSKATES ARE GOING??? YOU HAVE A DAMN ROCKET ON YOUR BACK!
You will accelerate, the wheels will melt off your skates when the treadmill is going 500mph in the opposite direction, and the kite will fly until you disintigrate into a ball of fury, jesus just think about it before any more of you make an complete *ss of yourselves
Gary

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

I want to clarify this even further:
1. ITS A TREADMILL, it has no effect on the air around it, it can only affect points in contact with it

2. Airplanes operate on air, hence the term AIRplane, understand this or dont post in this thread any longer

3. If the treadmill was so important to flight, by YOUR logic you could have a plane on a treadmill that was going 500mph in the correct direction, and the plane would magically lift off the ground, with no visible speed by people standing by?

4. IF YOU THINK IT WONT FLY, YOU ARE WRONG
Gary

 

[tom j]

Don't turn this into an argument lets keep it a discusion

 

[83hurstguy]

EXACTLY!!

If the treadmill has the ability to match the ground speed it won't fly

BUT!!

If it matches air speed then there would be lift from well the air speed and it will fly.
If you see how mythbusters is going to it and they match the car speed with the air speed of the plane then it will fly, if they were going read the speed of the planes tires and match it to the speed of the cars tires then it won't fly.

The question does not give enough(details) info to clearly answer it.

Huh? The speed of the planes tires in a forward motion HAS to match the opposite speed of the conveyor, that's just Newton's 3rd Law.

So what opposite force negates the thrust of the jet engines? Can somebody answer that?

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Don't turn this into an argument lets keep it a discusion

Exactly why I'll continue to be a spectator- it HAS turned into an argument. It's pointless to debate when too many don't even understand the word- they must resort to name calling, "being ashamed", and condescending attitudes. Imagine if this were live on a stage- it'd be similar to Clinton's and Obama's meltdown.

Not worth wasting brain power on- though I still find the premise interesting, and look forward to concrete proof based on the scientific method.

 

[Pablo]

this post is amazing, amazing how people can not understand something so simple even after dozens of explanations.


I'm still waiting for the Ground Speed Indicator...

If a plane won't fly because of insufficient Ground speed, there would be an indicator for it.

The treadmill/ground/water/ whatever the airplane is sitting on is irrelevant


For an airplane to fly lift must equal weight, and thrust must equal drag. The only drag on an airplane on a runway is aerodynamic and a small amount of wheel and rolling friction. Thrust simply has to overcome this to accelerate the plane. With forward motion due to thrust overcoming drag, lift is created because of airflow over the wings. Very simple concept.
A treadmill/conveyor has no effect on the aerodynamic drag of the airplane since it does not influence the air around it save for a small boundary layer which would in fact make the plane take off sooner.

Anyway, at this point I think we are all wasting our breath on the folks that can't understand this. Some people just weren't cut out for some subjects. I believe part of the problem is reading comprehension on the part of some.. for both the question and the subsequent explanations.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

WOW, i cant beleive this is almost 50%, i am completely ashamed of the intelligence level on this forum

ANOTHER EXAMPLE
YOU, now picture this yourself, YOU have on a pair of rollerskates, you have a kite in your hand, okay, imagine!
Step onto a big ass treadmill, your skating along at 5mph, the treadmill is going 5mph the other way, right?
YOU WONT MOVE
NOW, theres a rocket strapped to your back, your not moving, cause you and the treadmill are going 5mph
IGNITE THE ROCKET
DO ANY OF YOU HONESTLY THINK THE TREADMILL GIVES A SH*T HOW FAST YOUR ROLLERSKATES ARE GOING??? YOU HAVE A DAMN ROCKET ON YOUR BACK!
You will accelerate, the wheels will melt off your skates when the treadmill is going 500mph in the opposite direction, and the kite will fly until you disintigrate into a ball of fury, jesus just think about it before any more of you make an complete *ss of yourselves
Gary

Hey Gary
RELAX DUDE IT’S A FUN AND GAMES DISCUSSION

BTW the Plane Will Fly

 

[tom j]

The tires only have to match/equal the speed of the treadmill if it has 0 air speed. If the treadmill is going 100mph and the plane is going 50mph air speed then the tires are going 150mph. I get the third law.
The ? does not indicate what speeds are to be equal.

OK lets ask the ? this way if the treadmill was to match the mph of the planes tires will it fly? No it won't IMO

Now if the treadmill was to match the air speed(windmill analogy) of the plane will it fly? The speed of the tires will be double of the speed of the treadmill this way. Yes it will IMO

 

[ITSNOTAGN]

JUST SAYING!!!
lol
Gary

 

[Pablo]

The tires only have to match/equal the speed of the treadmill if it has 0 air speed. If the treadmill is going 100mph and the plane is going 50mph air speed then the tires are going 150mph. I get the third law.
The ? does not indicate what speeds are to be equal.

OK lets ask the ? this way if the treadmill was to match the mph of the planes tires will it fly? No it won't IMO
Now if the treadmill was to match the air speed(windmill anology) of the plane will it fly? Yes it will IMO

The treadmill is irrelevant, any way you try and pose the question.. it's completely irrelevant.

 

[tom j]

Who is going to build a test model and bring it to BGN?

 

[Pablo]

Who is going to build a test model and bring it to BGN?

I doubt anyone will because once you understand why the plane will fly it will seem like such an utterly simplistic question that no model is necessary. It's like bringing 4 apples to use them to show people that two apples plus two apples equals 4 apples.