n/a intakes

[mbartell]

I've been shopping around for a 4 bbl intake manifold for my Regal, and was wondering which one would work best.

1. Weiand sold currently by Holley-has EGR, available most places

2. Edelbrock-available everywhere, no EGR

3. 4.1- in junkyards, may need a little work to flow really good, has EGR, looks stock

4. Kenne-Bell no. 1 - expensive, has EGR

What I want is something that will work great, and not cause any hassle when the car gets it's "visual emmisions inspection", here in Texas.
Any sugestions?
Thanks
Mike

 

[Freddie's Buick]

What are you putting the 4-barrel intake into?


If it's into a 3.8 for a swap from a 2-barrel configuration, read some of my past threads.

All the choices you mentioned are good. But the 4.1 intake is the cheapest and easiest way to go. Use a new pan gasket that comes off of a 1980 V-6 turbo. 3.8's have a bigger exhaust port opening for the EGR, the V-6 turbo gasket comes with a smaller 5/8 round port for the EGR. This gives a little more umf to add to the HP increase. Stock Regal 3.8's are 105 HP, the swap and new gasket can give one 138-140 HP if one intends to use the stock 4.1 Q-jet. Thats about a 31% increase in HP gain.....

 

[mbartell]

D'oh!
Yes, it's a 3.8 with a 2bbl. I searched a bit, but I'll look around some more. I think I finally have the books I need- Doug Roe's rochester book, v6 performance By pat Ganahl, and an 85 or so copy of the Buick powersource manual.
Thanks
Mike

 

[jdub]

Don't use the Kenne-Bell if you're worried about a visual
inspection. Polished, tall, and looks mighty mean with a spacer
and a Holley sitting on it on that 'lil 6

Definetely worth it in my opinion, though............

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Yeah Kenne Bell looks neat, but only 25 more HP, 10 more with the Holley for a total of 35. The stock 4.1 intake and Q-jet is a better bargain....Cheap

But I guess KB's is better looking and real nice and expensive, ($199+). And that's not even including the Holley!

mbartell...I got everyone of the books you mentioned. And I also did this swap. It is totally worth it ! (The books are awesome too.) And if you decide on the 4.1, you'll have plenty of money left over to buy those books and then some....good luck!

 

[mbartell]

Thanks a lotfor the info- I'm kind of disapointed with the age of the books, all of them end in 80-85. Are there any newer sources of information?
I think the powersource is the best, but I guess I'm a little biased.
Is there a big advantage to cutting out the web between the carb bores, like the 1980 pace car build up?
Thanks
Mike

 

[jdub]

Dang! They want $200 for the KB intake now?!?!?!?
I paid like $149 for it about 2yrs ago! I didn't think that was
too bad for a fairly uncommon (ie: not sb chevy)

 

[mbartell]

yup the k-b is $199 last time I got their catalog- about a year ago
holley/weiand is about $159
edelbrock is about $150
all with no carb. I figure that the only reason they even still have any of these was the early 80's fear of everything becoming illegal. Nothing to do with the fact that there were millions of the buick 6's made nooo, not at alllll.

 

[b4black]

Is there a big advantage to cutting out the web between the carb bores, like the 1980 pace car build up?
Thanks
Mike

If I remember correctly, the articles about this engine stated this was for more high end power, and it hurts off the line performance. Good for a pace car, bad for a street car.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Right again Rich!

I have that Pace car article. The intake was machined for a specific purpose in mind-PACE CAR....

By the way mbartell.....the age of the books shouldn't hurt much. These guys know their stuff. I've applied their suggestions and the end result was always right on! Not much is out there ever since their publishing dates. Most modern engines are way different and that is what the market is now catering to.

Go with the flow......it's still darn good info....

 

[unboostedV6]

Stick with the 4.1 intake/ Q-Jet, or possibly go with the Edelbrock. The Weiand is an open plenum which requires more accelerator pump volume than a Q-Jet can provide. I'll never buy anything from KB again, although THEY claim their manifold is the best. I also still refer to those "old" books on occassion - about the only thing I'd argue is the need for a HV oil pump. I get 45psi at idle and 80 psi at 6500 hot with the stock pump gears. Just do the front cam bearing mod and add a 60 psi spring for street use. GB

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Greg,

I know how KB products did'nt do much for you, but I have a question on that cam bearing mod you mentioned. Is this the cam mod were the front cam bearing area is drilled at a certain clock position for better lubrication? Possibly in two weeks I am removing the timing cover for a check and the intake to replace the gasket with a 1980 turbo V-6 pan gasket. Just for the heck of it I'll take a look and see if I am capable of handling this mod.

You probably already know that I have KB's 104 LBS springs, Mark 1L cam, needle bearing cam button, dble roller bearing timing chain and timing gears, hi-rev hydraulic lifters and their oil booster plate. And I just ordered their high volume/high pressure oil pump kit which I intend to install.

 

[jdub]

Well, when I did my engine (actually closer to 3yrs ago when I thought about it), I didn't really have anything to go on other than K-B's word, and they seemed to be the only people to really cover this motor (non-turbo) with anything more than "oh ya, we got a cam and intake for that thing..."

I used their oil pump plate kit, timing kit, 1L cam kit, No1 intake, front and rear seals, and dist. hold down. Also grabbed their valve covers, (which I had a small issue with fitting) since I'd like to add roller rockers (although I'm going to use TA's) when I finish my blow-through set-up.

I don't have anything to compare power-wise, except it's a lot
quicker than when I started, gave me 0 problems during assembly/break-in, other than a hard to read cam spec card, and has given me 0 problems since, as my daily driver and only car....

 

[87regal]

I picked up a 82 3.8 shortblock minus the intake for 250, it was rebuilt by a mechanic friend of my dads when it spun a rod bearing with only 1200 miles on it, so it sat for awhile...

Im putting the 4.1 intake and carb on from my 84, and I already noted the tip about use the gasket from a 80 turbo motor

Any other small things I can do to increase power or help it breath easier, we are going to totally disasemble and rebuild it due to it sitting for years. Dont have to much to spend on this motor just want to get all the performance I can out of it, drive it for a few years and then try for 14's on A NA 4.1, any tips would be appreciated. TIA

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Just keep checking the forum and get those books! I have an '81 and it's almost at 200 HP from 105 with all the stuff I've put in it.

Tweaking a Q-jet ? Go to:

http://pages.prodigy.net/familiadiaz

The pics show a polished 1982 aluminum 4.1 intake installed on a 1981 3.8 engine. A 1-inch thick phenolic plate from Mr. Gasket sits in between the modified 1983 turbo Q-jet and the 1982 4.1 intake.

You do this and it's just the beginning. No telling how far one may want to go with a Buick V-6....

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Hey jdub,

I can't read Jim Bell's handwriting either....yep...all that stuff has yet to give me any problems too. September is the anniversity month for all the KB updates I did to my '81.

On Ray Bakers 1981 4.1 Pace car he welded two sets of stock valve covers together to get the clearance for the roller rockers. I'd like to try that some time but with the later stock finned aluminum valve covers. They are fairly easy to find in a local boneyards, and they're cheap!

Mine cost me $8.00 a pair!

 

[jdub]

Yeah, I think i spent about the same on the valve covers as
I did on the intake. They were a little finicky about getting the
gasket lined up, but they are no joke solid, and d*** sure ain't
ever going to flex or leak. These things are thick cast alumn.

87regal-

If your're going to have the thing all the way apart, you might
want to try a little clean-up of the exhaust ports and what you
can reach in the stock manifolds just for grins....

 

[mbartell]

Well, if you check the parts wanted section, I have at least one lined up. I guess that a lot of people have these 4.1 4bbl manifolds around, and are nice to list members.

 

[unboostedV6]

Freddie, Yes, you drill two new, smaller holes in the bearing and rotate it away from the stock position. This restricts oil to the driver's side oil galley. The pass side feeds the mains and rods. GB

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Thanks Greg!

Have'nt gotten around to installing all these additional mods yet, (I've got a virtual stock pile building up.... like to do things all in one shot). If it's not too challenging I might try this cam mod....