NA 3.8 Power on a Budget

[CTX-SLPR]

Howdy,

What kind of power can you make out of an NA 3.8 with the most basic of bolt ons? I'm thinking flat tappet cam, hooker headers, non computer HEI and either my 4.1 intake or an eBay aftermarket. I'm not looking to make much power, just enough to move a 64 Buick Special Wagon with a stick with some confidence. Also how complicated is it to add a FWD EFI setup?

Thanks,

 

[fuzzyGN]

I think an honest 175 to the wheels is pretty easy. I have a stock 4.1L shortblock and garage ported heads (mostly just the short-turn radius and general clean-up), a Poston cam and a Performer intake. I have Hooker headers for an H-body. Nothing very special at all. It will propel my 77 Vega wagon to a 14.6 @ 94 MPH at an elevation of 4000 feet. Of course that car weighs about 2600 pounds with driver. Budget? Got it all used from ebay and various other places for less than 500 bucks. I havn't tried the FWD set-up but it does bolt right onto the RWD heads. I toyed with the idea before I went to more of a race set-up.

 

[49-blues]

I got a set of ceramic coated NA headman headers and a custom true dual cat back system with flowmaster mufflers and twin cats and dual exhaust crossmember bar for sale. $500. firm- i paid over $1000. for the complete set- it will make that v6 sound like a big block chevy. everything has less than 1000 miles on it. sold the car and took all the parts off it.

 

[67turboCamaro]

I have a few sets of NEW forged flat top pistons for a 4.1-TRW, J/E, and Diamond. I would let them go cheap if your interested.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Lol... wow... I ask a question and I get parts offers... cool.
Honestly I am building my 4.1 for booste and this is a side project looking into a replacing the 225 oddfire in a wagon I'm looking at with something more modern and more powerful, even if only slightly. I'd really like to take a junkyard complete 109 3.8, dress it up with bolt ons (no messing with the heads) and have it make enough power to move the car with more confidence not run the strips. I'm more interested in the 3.8 than the v8's mostly because they burn the cheap gas and are 10-20 years newer than the 60-70's V8's therefore easier to find a core that might just need new bearings and gaskets and put it together and run it as is.

Thanks for the answer guys,

 

[49-blues]

I ll have a 84 gn long block available soon if you re interested still runs great.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

ok, now I'm getting a tad bit fustrated with ya'll, I'll admit it. I am looking for advice and ideas on how to make a little more power without anything radical from a later Buick V6. When I'm ready to start buying parts... I'll be sure to let ya'll know, but for now can we please keep this to a technical discussion not a parts wanted add?

Thanks,

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Looks like everyone's trying to sell you their failures.

Try this place: http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/

 

[fuzzyGN]

I read in a Buick book that Smokey Unich (sp?) got 240 hp out of a stock shortblock 4.1L. Not sure I totally believe it but it was a 5 part bolt on exercise. In no particular order, 4bbl intake, Holley 600 vac sac carb, headers, more aggressive cam, and something I can't remember. It might have been a little porting on the heads but not sure. The 3.8L should respond well to the same parts; just a little less power. I know the 600 sounds big but it does work really well on the Buick V6. Sorry, really don't have much for sale

 

[Freddie's Buick]

I don't believe that the V6 will do much for that classic Buick stationwagon no matter what you do to it. Too much weight to pull. The V6 N/A version does a poor job of pulling the 3000-lb Regal or any other car in that weight class. That's why they made the turbo version.

Don't expect too much torque from it with that weight. However I agree, it's a fine choice due to the availability of it's parts and easy repairs. I'd say go for it if you're are'nt dragging or expect to blow away highway leadfoots.

 

[QuickWrench]

I don't believe that the V6 will do much for that classic Buick stationwagon no matter what you do to it. Too much weight to pull. The V6 N/A version does a poor job of pulling the 3000-lb Regal or any other car in that weight class...

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Don't overlook the current 3800 N/A engines being produced. While the interchangeability is nil, there were tens of thousands of 3800-equipped Firebirds and Camaros produced from '93 - '02 that had around 170 horsepower, out of the box.

With a basic, well thought out combination and a proper tune, I'd expect that you could easily hit 180 BHP. Grab a decent used set of ported 3.8 heads, a 4.1 4bbl or Edelbrock intake with a Q-jet, up the compression a bit, and your choice of cam, and you'll be there.

I'd like to see this done, while disquising the engine in '64-style trim. (Engine paint, Eastwood carb paint, hose clamps, air cleaner, etc.)

(Sorry, no parts for sale here either.)

Good luck.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

177HP@3500 RPM's .....that's were I think I'm at...can't even begin to tell you what I put in it to get there! (Too much).

Yep, I have a 3200 lb Regal being pulled by a modified V6 N/A. So I think I would know a little about what the engine can do.

It'll pull the Regal beast......but not much better then the stock 110 HP OEM two barrel V6.

 

[fuzzyGN]

I figure I am putting out the same power (175 hp at an elevation of 4000 feet) with a stock shortblock 4.1L. The block was decked to flatten the surface which will up the compression some (probably not even half a point) but the rest of the stuff was off the shelf and used. Home ported heads, a more aggressive cam, 4bbl intake, Holley 600, and Hooker headers. That is it. Parts were WAY less than 500 bucks. It can be done easily but past 200hp would be a little more involved.

 

[wagon]

Here's my take on it. The 3.8 is a good motor. You could probably do the regular basic power upgrades that most do. Get yourself a good running engine, and while it is on the stand, throw in a cam. If you pull the heads, then maybe have the ports cleaned up. Get an aftermarket 4 bbl intake, and a good carb. If you look around, you may be able to find a stock intake for cheaper, but will probably get less performance out of it. This won't build a you a GN killer, but a few upgrades, and you should get a few more horses. Then, you can go with a higher stall converter. If you are going to use a lockup, then you can get away going even higher on stall speed, and not worry too much about gas while cruising. Good Luck.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Not looking for any type of race car at all, I just know that a 225 oddfire V6 is pretty much a dog and its not designed to run on modern cheap gas, the 3.8/4.1 is. That is the main reason why I want to do the swap. While I got the motor on the stand I figured it would be easy to get somemore power with a better cam, a 4.1 4bbl, either a Q-jet or edlebrock, and some headers. The car is a 64 Buick Special flatroof wagon with a 225 Dauntless and a Saginaw 3spd stick, yes a stick so no converter. The biggest engine in 64 was only a 300 V8 and in its most powerful form it only was rated at 250hp and 200 with the 2bbl. This wagon is hardly a street, stip, or anything burner and to accent that I don't want it loud at all. I'm going more for a retro shopwagon type of vehicle, its got the perfect oxidized blue paint and a perfect red interior. Add some mexican blankets on the seats and paint a fake speed shop name on the door and you got it.

Hope this clears things up,

 

[wagon]

Sorry. Didn't see it was a stick. I'd say go with a good cam and the 4 bbl carb, and a good free flowing exhaust, maybe a set of headers if you can find some that will fit. Then take it from there. Do you know how much it weighs?

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Cam, bigger intake valves, headers and duel exhaust. Port and machine the heads for both intake and exhaust stem seals. I highly recommend an Edelbrock intake with a Holly carb. The Holly only because it drops right in. (I'd rather the Q-Jet but the Edelbrock intake is not a spreadbore).

If you wanna go with a Q-Jet you can get an adapter which adds more height to the already higher intake. Edelbrock has a nice 2" chrome air filter canister that will meet the additional height with the adapter. This should solve the clearance issue, (it did for mine since I like the Q-Jet). I've had the 4.1 intake and the Edelbrock but the Edelbrock blows away the 4.1.

A nice set of headers are made by Pacesetter and are for the 3.8/4.1 V6 engines. They are inexpensive and very strong. Again, I can atest to this since that is what I have.

Go for the stock pre-1981 HEI distributor system. It is not computer controlled but can deliver up to 52,000 volts. Or you can pay up the nose with the older distributor and Pertronics ignition that won't even come close.

 

[samandw]

Have you considered a stock 3800 Series II out of a F-body? They were rated at 200/225 hp/tq, and from what I can tell the stock 1/4 mile times for the 3800 f-bodies were in the 15.7/16.3 range. And I think an EPA rated 19/30 with the 5-speed. Seems like that might be enough power for your needs without any mods, plus you get the FI without any messing around. . .
Just a thought.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Have you considered a stock 3800 Series II out of a F-body? They were rated at 200/225 hp/tq, and from what I can tell the stock 1/4 mile times for the 3800 f-bodies were in the 15.7/16.3 range. And I think an EPA rated 19/30 with the 5-speed. Seems like that might be enough power for your needs without any mods, plus you get the FI without any messing around. . .
Just a thought.

Thought about it yes, really considered it, no. To many issues trying to put the EFI in there. Mostly in the fuel system aspect, I am not a fan of jerryrigging up anything, especially a fuel system. The wireing is also pretty dang complex and it has no mechanical speedo for one on the tranny so I'd need a new tailhousing. I also am not sure of the chassis to oilpan conflicts that might exist. Its an awesome motor, makes good power and is durable but I don't think thats an easy swap to really be looking at. The wagon is under claim by someone else right now so I'm not sure I'll get it but if it does pan out, I think I'll go 4.1 with a cam, edelbrock intake, maybe an AVS carb or a used small holley, headers, and just drop it in. I'm not looking for a bunch of hassle trying to get this thing together and if I buy ported heads, I'd put them on my turbo 4.1 motor.

Thanks,

 

[shaggy]

I'm working on an NA buildup too. Here's what I've got so far.

Cam: Wolverine Blue Racer
Lift Intake .280 Exhaust .295
Duration Intake 270 Exhaust 280
Duration .050 Intake 204 Exhaust 214
Lobe Centers Intake 107 Exhaust 117

Intake Manifold: HOLLEY STREET DOMINATOR

Carb: 1978 TURBO 4V (Needs gone through)

Pistons: TBD (Possibly 3.0L, but I can't find anyone who's actually ran them)

Headers: Hooker ceramic coated

Heads: TBD (Possibly iron GN1's)

Everything I've bought so far has come from E(vil) bay.