Narrowband and wideband disagree. PL files inside.

[gunslinger]

I have the sensor mounted less than 12 inches after the turbine.

This explains why the WB reads funny under a load, but fine cruising at low speeds.

I added 20% fuel at WOT, so I'll see what the NB does with that.

I had Precision rebuild my turbo a couple of years ago. They screwed it up, and had to do it over. They replaced the center section with a different part number. They assured me they are the same, but the specs are different. I wonder if the turbo it's moving more air, and the chip need to be redone.

 

[gunslinger]

Drove the car to work today. WOT it has no power, and falls flat on it's face after adding 20% fuel. O2s still in the 690s-700s, WB buried at 10.

 

[Ttype6]

Drove the car to work today. WOT it has no power, and falls flat on it's face after adding 20% fuel. O2s still in the 690s-700s, WB buried at 10.

It's obvious that your narrowband is not functioning correctly. Have you tried leaning it out a little?
What MAF do you run?

 

[gunslinger]

It's obvious that your narrowband is not functioning correctly. Have you tried leaning it out a little?
What MAF do you run?

Yup. I think the NB is junk. I compared the NB input to what powerlogger was reading, and the input averaged 50mv higher than powerlogger said it was, but I'm going to write that off as data lag and ECM internal resistance.

I'll put another new NB in it tomorrow, and if I have time, I'll move the WB further downstream. I'm pretty sure that the WB sensor is damaged too. It reads fine until I get into any boost at all, then it drops to 10:1

Running a stock MAF.

 

[Ttype6]

Yup. I think the NB is junk. I compared the NB input to what powerlogger was reading, and the input averaged 50mv higher than powerlogger said it was, but I'm going to write that off as data lag and ECM internal resistance.

I'll put another new NB in it tomorrow, and if I have time, I'll move the WB further downstream.

Was there a time when your current setup showed correct narrowband numbers?

 

[gunslinger]

Was there a time when your current setup showed correct narrowband numbers?

Yup. Here's what my car looked like prior to all the problems.

 

[Ttype6]

Yup. Here's what my car looked like prior to all the problems.

What has been changed since this log?

 

[gunslinger]

What has been changed since this log?

The engine was removed, re-gasketed, turbo rebuilt and the timing chain was replaced. It was fine for a while.
This whole thing started with a failing fuel pump. O2 was reading progressively leaner, and I was only getting a 12psi rise at 22lb of boost. Changed the pump, sender, and filter, and fuel pressure came back, but the O2 voltage never did.
I have an Autometer FP gauge on my A-pillar, so I can watch it pretty closely. Tomorrow I'll verify that it's accurate.
There have been no other changes to the combo, other than adding the NB to help diag the problem better. And all it's done is make for more confusion.

 

[Ttype6]

The engine was removed, re-gasketed, turbo rebuilt and the timing chain was replaced. It was fine for a while.
This whole thing started with a failing fuel pump. O2 was reading progressively leaner, and I was only getting a 12psi rise at 22lb of boost. Changed the pump, sender, and filter, and fuel pressure came back, but the O2 voltage never did.
I have an Autometer FP gauge on my A-pillar, so I can watch it pretty closely. Tomorrow I'll verify that it's accurate.
There have been no other changes to the combo, other than adding the NB to help diag the problem better. And all it's done is make for more confusion.

Your narrow and wide are both reading wrong,in different directions,at WOT. Your duty cycle,when your narrow was working correctly,was higher because you ran more boost. The duty cycles of your new logs are lower,in proportion to the lower boost, but show as dramatically rich on the WB and dramatically lean on the NB. It seems like one of them should be in the ball park.

 

[gunslinger]

Put a new Denso O2 in, and it's doing the same thing. It's lean enough to where I'm getting some knock at 10psi. I checked fuel pressure with a mechanical gauge, and it said I had 52psi hose off.

At idle this O2 is reading 810 to 940mv.

I'm starting to think that there may be a restriction somewhere in the fuel system limiting fuel volume.

I've been a professional auto tech for 23 years, and this thing is kicking my ass.

 

[Ttype6]

I'm starting to think that there may be a restriction somewhere in the fuel system limiting fuel volume.

This is not something you want to think. It's something that is easy to know.
You said,in post48,your pressure came back after the new fuel pump was installed. I assumed you meant WOT fuel pressure. Have you proven that your fuel pressure rises one for one with boost? I'll assume you set your fuel pressure back to 43 line off.

 

[TurboTom72]

52 psi hose off is high. Eric recommends 43psi line off with his chips as TType6 mentioned. That could be the cause of the BLM numbers being rich at 117. Also, X2 on 1:1 rise. Check to make sure that the powerlogger is still seated good on the ECM and didn't back off the pins any. Check that the PROM is seated good to and that all the cables are firmly seated into the ECU. Sometimes the simple stuff will make you nuts.

 

[gunslinger]

I am getting a 1:1 rise in fuel pressure, and I realize that pressure is a function of volume, so I'm assuming that it's getting adequate volume. Just grasping at straws.

I have an Autometer electric FP gauge on the A-pillar, and watch it very closely. It was a mechanical gauge that I hooked up to the fuel rail that gave me the 52psi line off. Now I have to second guess my fuel pressure. I'd rather it be high than low, so I'm going to leave it alone until I find out why it's lean.

Why would the O2 and wideband work fine at idle, and while cruising around town, but at hwy speeds the O2 gets biased lean, and only reaches 640s at WOT.

Since the cam signal goes through the ign module and then to the ECM for injector timing, could the module be failing? I do get an intermittent choppy idle after trip down the highway. I've already tried a good coil, and it hasn't changed that either.

I'm going to have to step back and start over. I'm starting to go in circles.

 

[Ttype6]

I am getting a 1:1 rise in fuel pressure, and I realize that pressure is a function of volume, so I'm assuming that it's getting adequate volume. Just grasping at straws.

I have an Autometer electric FP gauge on the A-pillar, and watch it very closely. It was a mechanical gauge that I hooked up to the fuel rail that gave me the 52psi line off. Now I have to second guess my fuel pressure. I'd rather it be high than low, so I'm going to leave it alone until I find out why it's lean.

Why would the O2 and wideband work fine at idle, and while cruising around town, but at hwy speeds the O2 gets biased lean, and only reaches 640s at WOT.

Since the cam signal goes through the ign module and then to the ECM for injector timing, could the module be failing? I do get an intermittent choppy idle after trip down the highway. I've already tried a good coil, and it hasn't changed that either.

I'm going to have to step back and start over. I'm starting to go in circles.

The pressure rise means you have good fuel delivery. The big problem is that the two O2 sensors show complete opposite readings at WOT. They can't both be right. I think it would be a good idea to set fuel pressure at 43 with your mechanical gauge to see if your cruise BL number will rise.

 

[TurboTom72]

Weird. I see conflicting data here. The O2 sensor shows no more than .658 mv (lean) on your powerlogger files except on the known good log where it's in the normal range. Yet your BLM numbers indicate a rich condition. Constantly at 120-115 range at highway speeds. O2 Cross Counts are high at idle. I'm a little iffy about the narrowband O2 sensor. I've had sensors right from GM bad out of the box. I would also lower the static fuel pressure back to 43psi line off. It could be messing with the other readings. I would be more prone to trust the mechanical fuel pressure gauge than the electric one, especially if there could be the possibility of a hidden electronic/voltage issue here. If you aren't sure about the mechanical gauge, get another mechanical unit and verify your readings. Maybe try going back to a non-heated O2 sensor. Tough to keep throwing parts at it.

 

[gunslinger]

Okay.
Used a different fuel pressure gauge today, and it agreed with the one form the other day. I guess my pressure transducer is no good.
I dropped the pressure to 43psi line off, and reset the chip. It idles better, has more power and better throttle response, but it's even leaner now at WOT. 17 degrees of timing, 14lb of boost, my O2s are in the 580s, and I'm getting a couple degrees of knock.

Integrator and Block Learn, cruising down the hwy are better at 129-130, and the O2 appears to be more active.

I'm going to try adding WOT fuel now, and see what my O2s do. I'm guessing they'll climb a bit, but probably not enough.

 

[Pronto]

Eric, you may be able to adjust the volts on the analog input settings you have your transducer on to agree with your manual gauge.

 

[TurboTom72]

Were those numbers with or without alky? Definitely try adding fuel with the chip and see what the BLMs look like. What are the BLMs looking like at idle? Narrowband O2 readings? Maybe a slight vacuum leak somewhere? Powerlogger files at Idle, cruise, and WOT are helpful to post again with your recent changes. Stupid question, but were you able to check the 1 to 1 rise with the mechanical gauge? I know it sounds OCD, and I probably am, but until you get the autometer gauge figured out, rely on the mechanical one for all your readings/testing. Shit, do a leakdown test on the injectors while your at it to cover all bases. Leave no stones unturned!

 

[TT/Ameasap]

I have an autometer 0-100psi transducer from my old gauge. The gauge flaked out on it. If you want, I can ship it to you.

 

[gunslinger]

Were those numbers with or without alky? Definitely try adding fuel with the chip and see what the BLMs look like. What are the BLMs looking like at idle? Narrowband O2 readings? Maybe a slight vacuum leak somewhere? Powerlogger files at Idle, cruise, and WOT are helpful to post again with your recent changes. Stupid question, but were you able to check the 1 to 1 rise with the mechanical gauge? I know it sounds OCD, and I probably am, but until you get the autometer gauge figured out, rely on the mechanical one for all your readings/testing. Shit, do a leakdown test on the injectors while your at it to cover all bases. Leave no stones unturned!

BLM at idle wasn't too bad at 134.
I'm ignoring my WB until I have moved it further away from the turbine housing. I have the chip in its base settings, with the alky turned off. I'm not going to touch timing or boost until this is fixed.
I didn't check the 1:1 rise on the mechanical gauge. It looks like my autometer gauge reads 10psi low.
I did a leakdown check on the system while I had the gauge hooked up. It held pressure fine. I was going to do an injector balance test, but I couldn't find my injector tester.
I will find the cause of the problem. It's just going to take a while...and it's going to be something small, and stupid. (high resistance in a connector, a crappy, unrelated ground..) I refuse to throw parts at the problem.