need a few Q's A'erd, installing my oil pan on RJC GIRDLE- front cover Q's

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

WELL-
its snowing out today, so took the day off and im putting the parts on my new 3.8 motor-

after reading the RJC GIRDLE instructions, it says to use a Duttweiler cork pan gasket- of course there is 6 inches of snow out, and i have a felpro silicone gasket here at the house

Q- should i wait and get a cork gasket from NAPA, or acutally get a Duttweiler cork gasket---

the machine shop built the short block, and installed the GIRDLE and i believe they put the brass washers in the incorrect spots

per the instructions, the M8 FLAT WASHERS STAMPED "B" are supposed to be located, USE WITH UNDER GRADE 8 NUTS SECURING GIRDLE-
Q- so the "B" washers are supposed to touch the girdle, then crank down on the nuts, and then install the sealing washers?

MY flat washers stamped "B" are still in the bag, and the other 15 washers BRASS SEALING WASHERS .695X.315X.05 ARE under the nuts holding the girdle on the block-

let me guess, if i dont get this right, its going to leak like a S.O.B. AND i will have to pull the motor back out when i get p.o'd at it??

thanks in advanced guys, i need these Q's answered soon

ps- what kind of RTV did you guys use to seal between the bottom of the timing cover and girdle??
pss-
Q- will stock oil pump gears work with a aftermarket high volume front cover??
im missing the gears and seal that presses in the front of the cover, can i get it at NAPA??

THANK YOU

 

[Intercooler]

You have lots of problems

I did the girdle washers in the wrong spot once also..... never had a problem. The cork gasket is preferred but that rubber one should be fine. I used "The Right Stuff" on the girdle and I don't think you can get that seal at a parts store. The covers are all the same, it is whether it is HV or Std. volume gears. If it his HV gears you will need the spacer plate.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

hmmmm-

they used the right stuff between the block and girdle-
maybe i should have asked em for the rest of the tube for my timing cover

could you elaborate on the gears??

i do have a high volume timing cover that takes the seal from the front, not like the rear as the stock one does-
since its a HV cover, i probably should run HV gears....
whats this spacer your talking about? and what is its function??

is this spacer just like the one used to give a new surface for worn out oil pumps?

i do have lots of little problems but i'll take those over one large problem anyday

 

[Intercooler]

No difference in the covers. The difference is in length of the gears. You can fit standard volume gears in your cover but if you try to put the longer HV gears in you will need the spacer plate that goes around them to take up the distance so your oil filter adapter mounts properly. Now if you want to increase the pressure a little or give a new wear surface to the oil filter adapter you can buy a booster plate which is different than the HV spacer. If you get a HV pump it should have the gears, springs, longer bolts and the spacer plate.

The way I do them is std. volume gears, booster plate and TA performance adjustable regulator with end clearance set .002"- .003" measured with plastigauge.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

still confused about the sealing washers and the gears-
sent you PM,

if anyone else wants to chime in and talk girdles to me, im all ears.

right now the long block is finished, just waiting on putting the pan and timing cover on it-

also-

the oil slinger that goes on the crank, is there a small washer that goes on after the slinger?
for some reason i remember a small washer/shim with a keyway in it, and i dont see it layin here....

does it take that shim or not?
sorry i dont have a book or manual

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

TOP

need answers on the slinger and washers-

 

[gnsrule]

Q- will stock oil pump gears work with a aftermarket high volume front cover??

If you have a true HV cover, then no, stock gears will be too short. Intercooler, there is a cover thats made for the longer gears, its in the garage if you want a part number.
I dont remember about about the slinger, i dont belive so.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Originally posted by gnsrule
If you have a true HV cover, then no, stock gears will be too short. Intercooler, there is a cover thats made for the longer gears, its in the garage if you want a part number.
I dont remember about about the slinger, i dont belive so.

yes its a true HV front cover=
the seal goes in from the front, and not the back like the stocker-

where can i get the gears??

i believe it to be a 6 year old bowling green customs part-
but still brand new and not installed-

its got the allen set screw right on top just near the cam sensor-

thanks for the reply- we are getting closer-

 

[gnxtc2]

I just install my girdle not too long ago. Here's what I did

1. Install the front cover BEFORE installing girdle. Reason: So the bead of Right Stuff is "one" piece.

2. Used the regular nuts to secure the girdle to the pan rail. Then I put the brass sealing brass sealing washers over them. I then added more Right Stuff over the sealing washers and laid the Duttweiler gasket down. I added more Right Stuff over the gasket. I then laid down the pan using the metal flange nuts to secure the pan.

The washer you are talking about is a spacer for the balancer. Some motors came with them, some didn't. Yours did and put it back on. It spaces the balancer out so the crank bolt can hold the balancer on.

Kirban sell the correct pan gasket.

Hope this helps

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

BILLY T

im glad someone does recognize the fact that some do and some dont-

i have no idea why some do, and some dont, but this engine is misc parts put together, 109 block, stock mains, and a crank from another engine- plus the girdle-
i tear apart about 8 engines per year, and i cant remember wether or not it came with that shim or not--

is there a measurement some where for that shim? to space out the balancer?
i know ive seen it somewhere, but dont know if it was on this particular engine-

my problem is my girdle is bolted in, and my front cover is on the shelf right now-
the front cover fits, but there is a slight gap-
ill get it done, i just need some good advice--

JESSE where you be at man?

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by gnxtc2
I just install my girdle not too long ago. Here's what I did

1. Install the front cover BEFORE installing girdle. Reason: So the bead of Right Stuff is "one" piece.

2. Used the regular nuts to secure the girdle to the pan rail. Then I put the brass sealing brass sealing washers over them. I then added more Right Stuff over the sealing washers and laid the Duttweiler gasket down. I added more Right Stuff over the gasket. I then laid down the pan using the metal flange nuts to secure the pan.

The washer you are talking about is a spacer for the balancer. Some motors came with them, some didn't. Yours did and put it back on. It spaces the balancer out so the crank bolt can hold the balancer on.

Kirban sell the correct pan gasket.

Hope this helps

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Exactly the way I did mine including using Right Stuff over the sealing washers before putting the pan on. Not one leak!

So you guys are saying you have a cover with gear pockets cast deep enough to accept the longer gears with no spacer? Just bolt the oil filter adapter on? Please take on of your covers and measure the pocket depth to the end of the cover and I will measure the one I have here.

Your slinger goes behind the cover before you put it on and the spacer washer goes on the nut you use to tighten the balancer on. This is my girdle motor I put together:

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/8687SG.html

For some odd reason the balancer nut wouldn't tighten up with just one washer. I had to put double washers in this one to get the proper torque.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

WELL CARP-
I dont have that washer/shim for the slinger,and couldnt tell you if it ever had it-

is there a measurement i can do to finger out if i need that spacer-

did you get my PM??

"B"washer goes to the block, nut, torque it down, smaller washer goes on, then pan gasket, finally the pan??

still not together cause of my idiocy

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

oh yeah-

i cant use any type of sealer with the felpro gasket or else it will push out-

why is this so complicated compared to a stock motor?

 

[Intercooler]

Doing the girdle takes some prep and it is more work. I didn't put one on this or the 4.1 I put together this month. I may or may not lose a crank/block. Tempting fate? Probably! But aren't we all!! I want to see the effects first hand if I have one let go. If I do explode one by fatigue purposes the next step IMO would be to skip the girdle and do the TA setup. Get that pocket measurement? I will get mine.... be back.

 

[Intercooler]

The pocket depth is .875". What did you get?

 

[FJM568]

The Hi-vol cover will have about 1/4" more depth than a std cover...

Good luck on finding a cork oil pan gasket in KC, Bryan...Let alone the Duttweiller cork gasket...None of the parts stores that I tried here in town carry a cork gasket...I've tried NAPA, AutoZone, Advance, O'Reilly's, CarQuest, Eastside Auto, etc...I've called just about everyone in town and couldn't find one...

Kirban's is about the only place that has them, next to maybe Duttweiller himself...

 

[Intercooler]

I got mine from South East Turbo.

 

[gnsrule]

The pocket depth is about 1.125 ruffly. Useing a ruller to crudely measure it right now. Yes, this is the cover w/ the allen bolt up top, dont know why its there, but it is.
The cover part # is 6571H
Silver Seal Products
Trenton Mi.
800-521-2936
Give them a call, maybe they can set you up w/ the gears for it. Mine came w/ new gears and pressure relief springs and gaskets.
If not, try ANS outside of chicago, thats where i got mine from.
Good Luck

 

[gn1220]

Bryan, call Bannister Auto Parts. They are on Bannister/95th St. and Troost. Right across from Bendix, next to Bob Gray's service center. They carry the cork ROL pan gasket on the shelf. I bought 2 of them a few months ago.

 

[gn1220]

Part number:OS5755 Oil Pan Set Eng. 231(3.8) RWD VIN:A 9&7
Replaces Felpro: OSO3O521R, Mc Cord: CS2995, Victor: OS32021