need help or im going to sell... northern IN (rant/long)

[xXch0dyXx]

well over the past yaer i have slowly been getting the car up to par with restore/parts that were needed to be fun on the street.

i have everything in my sig on the car, and now ever since i put the 1st te60 on the car, it has been making a wierd sound/miss.

i bought a slightly "used" te60 off here a few months back, had it on the car for maybe 100 miles when i pulled the maf tube back off cause the car never seemed like it ran any better, and sure enough the shaft play was off the charts. It seemed a little loose when i put it on, but he said it was in perfect working condition, i should have known better

well ever since then, when i go WOT, i get this slight noise followed by a couple knock lights on my gauge, and if i stay in the throttle it will continue until it reaches the yellow lights. Its not audible knock, its just sounds/feels like a slight miss.

The car has new plugs gapped at .035 and new wires, stock ign coil pack. I tried turning the boost down to 20psi and running it, and had the same issue, but when i flooded it with alky ( afr on the wideband was around 10.5-10.9) the knock didnt stay but it still did the slight miss/sputter.

Im thinking its an ignition problem but i cant be sure. It feels like plugs, but i just replaced them... I just recently got the wideband on and the car was running about 10.5-10.7 afr with the TT alky chip, so it has been pretty fat. Ive just put about 3k into the car in the last 3 months, and it would prolly get beat by a stocker, and im about done unless i get it figured out. Any help is appreciated


any chance of it being the stock cam?? maybe cam sensor/timing?

TIA

 

[bison]

If you turn the boost down further does it get better? At what point does it get better if so? Could be a lot of things. If cam sensor is off it will be lousy at low rpm and off idle. It may also start hard if its the cam sensor position. Are you sure grounds and ignition components are all sound? Do you have anything that is loose or could cause false knock? Is the tach doing anything weird when the miss occurs like it starts going back to zero rpm or heads toward 6375rpm? If it occurs under pressure only and not rpm related necessarily i would suspect leakage between cylinders under boost causing a mis-fire on the wasted spark fire of the ignition. That will cause KR like you are exhibiting. This is only after you have completely ruled out he ignition firing properly itself. If its at high rpm and load it may be a spring problem. If its a spring problem power will taper off quickly at high rpm and boost and eventually mis-fire or back fire causing KR.

 

[xXch0dyXx]

If you turn the boost down further does it get better? At what point does it get better if so? Could be a lot of things. If cam sensor is off it will be lousy at low rpm and off idle. It may also start hard if its the cam sensor position. Are you sure grounds and ignition components are all sound? Do you have anything that is loose or could cause false knock? Is the tach doing anything weird when the miss occurs like it starts going back to zero rpm or heads toward 6375rpm? If it occurs under pressure only and not rpm related necessarily i would suspect leakage between cylinders under boost causing a mis-fire on the wasted spark fire of the ignition. That will cause KR like you are exhibiting. This is only after you have completely ruled out he ignition firing properly itself. If its at high rpm and load it may be a spring problem. If its a spring problem power will taper off quickly at high rpm and boost and eventually mis-fire or back fire causing KR.

the car runs fine when doing anything but a WOT run. All the grounds are sound, i had them checked when i got the car and did the 87 conversion. Occasional hard starts/doesnt want to start. Doesnt seem like anything is loose and causing false knock, but verywell could be. I still have the digidash, all the tach does is max out when i floor it (tach on the way very soon) Doesnt seem to be rpm related, just soon as i reach peak boost or close to it. I have brand new comp cam springs also. Im going to try and buy some AL 23's today and get them in asap and see if that helps, wanna try to obvious and cheap first....

keep em coming, i appreciate the help

 

[xXch0dyXx]

just remembered a little important tidbit

the guy a bought the car from had a lifter go bad, and bend the hell out of a pushrod and had to replace the pushrod and all the lifters(had to replace one but did them all)

i dont know too much about these cams, but i know they arent very forgiving...

 

[waddell87]

You say right in your question "the shaft play is off the wall" Why don't you start there? You have the original turbo or the one that came off it. It takes but an hour or so to swap turbo's. Let us know

 

[xXch0dyXx]

that was the first te60, i have since purchased a new te60 and installed it, which is what im running now. sorry for the confusion

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Plug gaps too wide for that boost level??
Sensor readings OK?
Lifter go bad, and bend a p rod?? I'd look further at that idea. Could be, the cam has gone "tango uniform".

 

[GSX-PKV]

Check for a vacuum leak. Look at the plastic vacuum line that goes to the fuel pressure regulator and the one that is for the boost guage that is on the passenger side fender. As simple as it sounds, I was surprised that I had a WOT popping issue caused by a crack in plastic vacuum line that goes to the fuel pressure regulator. Many of the hard plastic vacuum lines crack with age. Paul

 

[RUQWKNF]

Where are you located in Northern IN?
Don and myself might be able to help you diagnose what is going on.
I will send you a Private Message with my contact number.
We'll do everything we can to get you straight.

Patrick

 

[Dreamcar86]

well over the past yaer i have slowly been getting the car up to par with restore/parts that were needed to be fun on the street.

i have everything in my sig on the car, and now ever since i put the 1st te60 on the car, it has been making a wierd sound/miss.

i bought a slightly "used" te60 off here a few months back, had it on the car for maybe 100 miles when i pulled the maf tube back off cause the car never seemed like it ran any better, and sure enough the shaft play was off the charts. It seemed a little loose when i put it on, but he said it was in perfect working condition, i should have known better

well ever since then, when i go WOT, i get this slight noise followed by a couple knock lights on my gauge, and if i stay in the throttle it will continue until it reaches the yellow lights. Its not audible knock, its just sounds/feels like a slight miss.

The car has new plugs gapped at .035 and new wires, stock ign coil pack. I tried turning the boost down to 20psi and running it, and had the same issue, but when i flooded it with alky ( afr on the wideband was around 10.5-10.9) the knock didnt stay but it still did the slight miss/sputter.

Im thinking its an ignition problem but i cant be sure. It feels like plugs, but i just replaced them... I just recently got the wideband on and the car was running about 10.5-10.7 afr with the TT alky chip, so it has been pretty fat. Ive just put about 3k into the car in the last 3 months, and it would prolly get beat by a stocker, and im about done unless i get it figured out. Any help is appreciated


any chance of it being the stock cam?? maybe cam sensor/timing?

TIA

There are two things that caught my eye. One the spark plug gap should be .030 for 20 plus pounds of boost. Second Julio likes to see the wbo2's between 11.3 - 11.5. Have you adjusted your TT chip since installing it?

 

[bison]

If the previous owner replaced the lifters and 1 pushrod and did not change the cam i would look there first. Pull the cover and see if the lifters are spinning. If not then you have a lobe going away.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Hmmnn..

If the previous owner replaced the lifters and 1 pushrod and did not change the cam i would look there first. Pull the cover and see if the lifters are spinning. If not then you have a lobe going away.

an echo???

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Ya check that cam but

Did you update the chip for the alky?? Add more timing otherwise it will want to miss when you gun it.

If your coil pack is old you will have a harder time lighting off alky with that much boost on a .35 gap. Coil packs are cheap now, if yours is over 40 or 50k miles old just get a new one.

 

[xXch0dyXx]

ive checked for the vacuum leaks, and the bend p-rod happend b4 i got the car, and the car just recently started doing it all the time. I have an alky chip for the kit. I tried turning the boost down to 20psi, and i got the same issue. I was adjusting my chip for the 36# injectors, but i just installed the 009's and new alky chip, but this TT chip is like 5 years old and i havent gotten an answer back from eric to see if i can adjust anything.

I read the instructions for adjusting the older chips on his website, but want to make sure i can do it b4 i try. Im picking up the new plugs on my way home from work today, so hopefully this week i will get them installed at a .030 gap and something good will happen.

keep them coming guys, i might have a little hope

 

[d0n_3d]

Gapping your plugs to .030" is not going to solve your problem. I ran 30 psi of boost on .032" gap on my plugs and never had a miss. Has the fuel filter been changed recently? Have you verified fuel pressure at WOT? Plug wires in good shape? Coil and ignition module in good shape? Are you still running a MAF sensor? Is that good? Getting proper voltage at WOT? Always check the obvious crap first.

 

[xXch0dyXx]

Gapping your plugs to .030" is not going to solve your problem. I ran 30 psi of boost on .032" gap on my plugs and never had a miss. Has the fuel filter been changed recently? Have you verified fuel pressure at WOT? Plug wires in good shape? Coil and ignition module in good shape? Are you still running a MAF sensor? Is that good? Getting proper voltage at WOT? Always check the obvious crap first.

fuel filter has been changed. havent had a way to check wot pressure yet. plugs were just replaced, coil is stock, not been replace/nor has the ign module. Have an ls1 maf and translator. WOT voltage is bang on.

whats the best way to check wot FP? i know the car is pig rich at wot when i have the alky barely on at 21psi, so i just figured it had enough fuel (emailed eric about instructions to take fuel out of the chip, but its non adjustable)

 

[87natl]

Run a fuel guage with a hose off of the fuel rail and out the back of the hood, to where you can see it while driving. For each lb of boost your fp should go up one lb.

And Don may be right about not HAVING to have such a tight gap on your plugs, but if there is weakness in your ignition system somewhere, it can at least help point you in the right direction.

 

[buickruss]

If your near South Bend I could loan you a fuel pressure gauge. It has the braided line long enuff to tape to the windshield.

Russ

 

[tom j]

Crank sensor?, cam sensor cap, also check cam sensor interupter ring maybe it loosened up.

 

[xXch0dyXx]

think i found the problem...

seems that when the previous owner replaced the lifters, he did not know you had to replace the cam. So im going to get my oil pressure gauge hooked up and see if i did or didnt wipe out teh bearings, if i didnt then i put a new cam/lifters in it to hold the car over for the season.... hopefully some oil pressure is still there....

thanks again patrick, ill let you know what i find out