Need Help - Won't Start

[89TTA1415]

Drove the car to work and it ran flawlessly. Went out to start it and it started for about a second, got real rough and died. Will not start at all. Have tested and replaced with know good coilpack, MAF, ignition module, crank sensor, plugs, and wires. It has spark, good fuel pressure but just hits a little and thats it. I have gone through all tests in the manual and everything tests out. :frown: Have not removed the cam sensor as I don't have the tool to align it back. I am getting some fuel vapor out of the intake somewhat like a backfire but no pop. Drained oil and no antifreeze or particles in it. Could the cam gear that drives the sensor just have gone? Is there a procedure (without removing the front cover) to check cam timing with the crank and piston #1? Haven't been able to find the procedure to check time. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

When you crank the engine over, does it sound like some cylinders arent hitting correctly? As in, while cranking the engine over, does the pitch of the engines sound change while cranking? High low high low ect?

What i would do is pull the up pipe off, if you crank the motor over and air continuously pushes out the throttle body, then the timing chain has slipped, and most likely bent a few pushrods...

I would first pull the cam sensor cap off (no adjustment needed) and see if the ring with the little window is intact and has not torn the tab allowing the camsensor ring to freely move.
BW

 

[TT/Ameasap]

The only time this ever happened to me ( as you describe) was when the idle screw backed off and I had to give it gas while cranking the car and it fired rite up.

HTH
Bo

 

[89TTA1415]

I will pull the cam sensor cap and see. It really makes no sense as the car ran great and then I turned it off and it wouldn't start. It really doesn't change pitch when cranking but I do think the timing is either off or the cam sensor is messed up. I tried holding the pedal down a little and it still doesn't start. Thanks for the info.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

For some reason i didnt get a email response to this thread, but if the sound of the motor doesnt change while cranking then that is a great thing-
I would floor the car and see if it starts, if you floor it while cranking, it should shut off the injectors, kind of like if the car was flooded and now your not giving it fuel while cranking.

If it does backfire and cough and sputter while cranking, most likely cam sensor is not adjusted correctly, check to see if the interrupter ring is tight.
BW

 

[Grumpy]

check inj pulse ..

 

[83ttypecooled]

No start

Hi,
I am pretty certain that your timing chain skipped a couple of teeth, which is common on startup with older motors. That phenolic cam gear doesn't last for ever. The reason it sounds like it wants to start is that during the engine rotation,occasionally timing will get close to correct, and a firing event will occur.
The job is about 6 hours for a slowpoke like me, and of course this is a good time to upgrade your oiling system with a new cover.
I guess the best verification you could do in this situation would be a compression test. You could also pull the cam sensor cover and check to see that it is correct, but you have to know what you are doing there, as I think it is supposed to be set up at other than TDC #1. Something like 26 degrees before, but I am not sure about this. Never had to fool with one yet, guess I'm lucky.
I hope this is not wrong information, good luck with your trouble!

 

[89TTA1415]

Thanks for the info. Looks like it is timing as I have tested injector pulse, cam sensor, crank sensor, ign. module and coil pack. I tested compression and it looked good but at the end it started to act wierd like is was trying to kick back so I quit and started the tear down. About 3/4 the way thru getting the front cover off but I don't have the correct socket for the crank balancer. Anyone know what size that bolt is? Hopefully there are no bent valves as the compression tests indicate there are none but I only got thru the first 2 cylinders. Any recommendations on gear sets? Been looking at the stock setup and the double roller. Engine only has 83K on it and oil pressure was great. I found no metal or plastic in the oil so I am hopeful the repair will go good. :smile:

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

what?
started acting wierd? Probably timing chain then...
Did you do the test to see if air came OUT of the throttle body????????????

1 1/8 for the crank bolt 219ft/lbs
BW

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

You WILL find bent pushrods on a TTA motor if the chain slipped enough and the car ran with it off... TTA pushrods are about 8 7/16 long and tighten the rockers to 25 ft/lbs just like a pontiac and call it done.

Wished you would have posted sooner before you tore it apart, but if it acts odd, most likely timing chain is slipped.

I run a napa timing chain, but only a few here run it.. they are cheap...

Call comp cams for the Correct pushrod length on a TTA motor, they are shorter than a GN pushrod.
BW

 

[89TTA1415]

Yeah...Thats what I mean't by wierd. Had the up pipe off and started seeing some air/fuel come out and the engine started to kick back a little. Hopefully no major damage though. Thanks for the size on the crank bolt and the torque. Any recommendation on the gear set?

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Find out what all is wrong first, then order a timing chain and pushrods from comp cams.
Double roller is nice....
BW

 

[Grumpy]

you can do a leakdown an see if the vales are sealing .. I only had one like that here over the years..tc was torn up pretty good .. ... CHECK FOR BENT VALVES

 

[TClassic]

The ONLY way to get that Crank bolt off is to Zap it with an Air Gun, simply borrow an air gun and air Tank from your Buddys Shop & Zap it!

Otherwise Good Luck.........