Need some help with my GN

[69GSColorado]

Hi my name is Jordon and I have an 87 Grand National with 73,000 original miles. I've had it two years and me and my dad don't know too much about it. It appears to be running extremely rich. At idle it rolls out black smoke and it and also smokes when you floor it. Performance seems to getting worse, but it never ran that great to begin with.

We've only driven about 4,000 miles since we bought it, and took it to the track a few times. Our absolute best time was 13.43, but we consistently ran high 13's with drag radials. We were told it has bigger injectors and we know it has a hypertech chip in it. Other than a cold air intake with a K&N cone filter, the rest of the engine appears stock.

It's getting terrible mileage and it's hard to enjoy the car when you can't afford to drive it. It gets about 16 mpg on the highway and a little less than 10 in town. Can you guys maybe give me some guidance? We love this car and want to get it running right but we can't figure out what is wrong with it.

We live in South Central Missouri and was hoping to find a place nearby that knows Turbo Buicks. It obviously needs tuned but we don't want to just take it to just any tuning shop. I'd really appreciate your help. Thanks!

 

[phil_jordan]

Hey, we will definitely need a list of mods. How do you know that it's running rich? Do you have a scan master? stock turbo? what size injectors? there's a lot to be addressed before i personally could input any reasons for the drivability. i say grab a set of injectors with a matching chip from Turbotweakstore.com. At least then, you'll KNOW what you have oppose to guessing. We could guess all day about what's done to the car, but without knowing for sure, we're just pissing in the wind. Lol. Where exactly in South Central Mo are you? Im in STL, so i wouldnt be too familiar with any GN guys down that way.

 

[phil_jordan]

Also, the SEARCH function would be a lot faster than waiting on us guys on here to respond. There may have been people with your symptoms already.

 

[fastblackracing]

welcome to the buick world glad to see another one join the ranks. It sounds like your gn ran respectable at the track, but the black smoke and gas mileage need addressed. First thing to come to mind is a bad oxygen sensor, possibly contaminated and not reading right you can get a bosch replacement at auto zone for like 30$. You will want to find out for sure what injectors are in it, get any info you can off one and post a pic or two of them and we can help you figure it out. You will also want to get a updated chip off one of our vendors here once you know what injectors are in it.

 

[whitehot1]

I would guess the MAF sensor is bad causing the problems you describe. Good stock replacement ones are hard to find from what i have read. So you might want to consider going with a Maf Translator and a LT1 or LS1 maf sensor.

I would suggest a more modern chip like an Extender Extreme this would be a great match if you go with the Maf Translator or a TurboTweak matched to the injectors you have.

I would also suggest doing the spring cleaning if you haven't done it yet,here is a link to it.

http://www.gnttype.org/maint/basics.html

You will most likely need an O2 sensor like mentioned already but i wouldn't recommend the Bosch brand it reads way to slow, you can get the Denso brand from rockauto.com for $11.02 plus shipping and it will be cheaper and work a lot better.


DENSO Part # 2341001

OE Style; Single Wire Sensor

O.E. Quality Replacement Sensor; Upstream

$11.02

 

[DavidM]

Does the vehicle have a Scanmaster installed? If it does posting Scanmaster data would be the single best thing you can do for the Turbo Regal gurus on this board so they can see what is really going on.

Try posting pictures of what you have so we can decipher your current combo and let you know what mods you are running. This would come in handy when it is time to contact Eric at TurboTweak.Com to order your custom chip.

Are the plugs fouled? What Injectors? Fuel Pressure? Fuel pump? Where are your volts on your TPS?

http://gnttype.org/techarea/fuelsystem/fuelpage.html

 

[GNRick]

AutoZone also carries Denso. I would do the O2 sensor and fuel filter. Could certainly be the MAF, spark plugs, plug wires too.

 

[69GSColorado]

Wow guys thanks for the quick responses.

@phil_jordan: The turbo is stock and the only clue we have to it running rich is the black smoke. It's our best guess. The only mods on the car are a cold air intake with K&N filter, bigger injectors (we were told) and a hypertech chip. Also, I'm not sure what size injectors is on the car. Would I have to pull them to be able to tell? I'll try to get some pictures of the injectors and the chip on here tomorrow. Also, I'm from the West Plains area if you know where that is. St. Louis isn't isn't too far that's awesome!

@fastblackracing and whitehot1: I guess an oxygen sensor would be a good place to start. The check engine light has been on since we bought the car and we assumed it was the aftermarket chip. It's cheap enough, and that would be awesome if it fixed our problem.

@DavidM: No we haven't purchased a Scanmaster. What exactly do they do? Do they work with a laptop? I'll try and get some pictures on here tomorrow or Sunday of my setup. Last time we checked the plugs were fine but it wouldn't hurt to check again. How do you check the volts on you throttle positioning sensor? Is turbotweak a good place to get a chip? I've heard a lot of good things about them on this board in the short amount that I've read.

 

[GNRick]

IAC and TPS http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/faq/IACresetscan.html

 

[69GSColorado]

Thanks Rick!

 

[whitehot1]

Wow guys thanks for the quick responses.

@phil_jordan: Would I have to pull them to be able to tell? I'll try to get some pictures of the injectors and the chip on here tomorrow.

If you look on the side of the injectors towards the top you will see the part /serial # on there that will identify them.

Also when you remove the chip from the ECM there should be some info written on the underside of the chip to identify them too.

 

[whitehot1]

Here are some injector part #'s that may help you identify the ones you have.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/fuelsystem/injflow.html

 

[69GSColorado]

Thanks whitehot1! I'll get a look at them tomorrow and try to find some answers.

 

[87-WE2]

Good advice from all here.
#1 - determine what you have for injectors and chip. If EITHER turn out to be unknown, get new ones. Your chip MUST match the flow rating of the injectors in order for it to run right. The injectors should be easy enough to google to figure out. If you can't tell what your chip is, post some pics of it. Several here on the board are really good at figuring those out and determining whether they are worth a hoot. I can tell you this, though - if it turns out to be anything besides a TurboTweak or Extender, almost everyone's going to tell you to toss it and get one. Eric @ TurboTweak and Bob Bailey are the shizznit for chips.
#1 also - get a Scanmaster. You don't need a laptop or anything to use it and installation is a breeze. It tells you what's going on under the hood with several engine parameters, can lead you to vacuum leaks, exhaust leaks, help determine whether you indeed have a rich condition, help determine whether your MAF or O2 sensor is bad - all kinds of things. ScanMaster = GOOD; necessary; indispensable.

By the time you get through the "spring cleaning" listed on gnttype.org, your car should be running right with no smoke out the tailpipes, unless you've got some bad rings, a bad turbo seal or something else. Given that your smoke is black, it is likely related to fueling issues, but that's just a guess. Burning oil is usually bluish colored, and white - well, white smoke is bad mmKay!!

Good luck with the car and read, read, read. The two websites mentioned above (gnttype.org and vortexbuicks.com) are MUST reads for every TR owner. Get familiar with them for sure. If you're unable to figure it out on your own, then post up here. There's always someone (and most of the time several folks) who are willing to help and give advice.

 

[69GSColorado]

 

[69GSColorado]

I took some pictures today! Hopefully you guys will be able to help me out. I didn't see the these injectors on the parts list in this thread, so I have no idea if it matches the chip or not. If you can't tell from the pictures, the injectors part number is D1720BA. Then on the other side of the injector is has the number 24.

My Hypertech chip number is #41372 and the serial number is #0018592. The box looks like its from the stone age haha. It also says stage 2 on there. Is this the correct chip for these injectors? Have you ever heard anything good about hypertech chips?

 

[boostedyards86]

spend the money on a new chip and some fresh injectors. that chip, idk if i've seen anyone use a hypertech on these cars before.

 

[69GSColorado]

Here is a picture of the coilpack, which appears to be stock. It's leaking out this blue stuff. Is that normal?

 

[69GSColorado]

This is another area that caught my attention. It's leaking a little bit of oil after the intercooler. It that a sign of a bad turbo seal?

 

[69GSColorado]

Here is few picturesI snapped of the turbo. Is this the factory Garrett Turbo?