New Engine Build

[charlief1]

subscribed

 

[SMA]

If anyone is interested, the third video of this buildup is now up and running. It covers the cylinder heads (GN1R) and valvetrain. You can find it at StreetMuscleAction.com.

 

[NCTURBOS]

Interesting move on the valve stem sizes... We're were thinking about doing this on a set of iron heads to lighten things up...

Do you think the heads can drain back the oil quick enough?


K.

 

[SMA]

I thought the smaller stem sizes were a neat trick. All it requires to cut a good amount of weight is new guides and some lash caps.

I don't think oil drainback on the heads will be an issue because it is a dry sump and I'm thinking the external tank will be pretty large. We'll have to get Mad Turbo on here to say how much. So even if the oil does pool up on high-rpm passes (and I don't know if it will), there should still be plenty in the external tank.

 

[NCTURBOS]

I don't think oil drainback on the heads will be an issue because it is a dry sump and I'm thinking the external tank will be pretty large. We'll have to get Mad Turbo on here to say how much. So even if the oil does pool up on high-rpm passes (and I don't know if it will), there should still be plenty in the external tank.

I figured the dry sump system would be OK. I was just thinking out loud on how it would affect the head gasket seepage...


K.

 

[Turbo Indian]

Do you think the heads can drain back the oil quick enough?


K.

it's my understanding the R heads (like mine) have this issue, but Dan has the fix for it.

 

[SMA]

What's the fix?

 

[NCTURBOS]

What's the fix?

The "fix" without the squirters is one thing, but with the additional oil of the squirters...

On another note Comp part#26918 installed at 1.800" varies around 130-lbs. on the seat, not 140-lbs. And at a spring rate of 313-lbs. they'll be into coil bind before hitting 340-lbs. open. With the available spring pad area on the aluminum heads, why go with such a small spring? We're kinda limited with the iron heads, but the aluminum heads allow otherwise...


K.

 

[Turbo Indian]

The "fix" without the squirters is one thing, but with the additional oil of the squirters...

that is why our top Buick engine builders... RPE, DLS, Anderson Performance, Zimmerman, Weber Racing, ect. get paid the big bucks, to know these things, and other unique tricks on the v6.:wink:

 

[Russ Merritt]

The "fix" without the squirters is one thing, but with the additional oil of the squirters...

On another note Comp part#26918 installed at 1.800" varies around 130-lbs. on the seat, not 140-lbs. And at a spring rate of 313-lbs. they'll be into coil bind before hitting 340-lbs. open. With the available spring pad area on the aluminum heads, why go with such a small spring? We're kinda limited with the iron heads, but the aluminum heads allow otherwise...


K.

Exactly, they used custom valves so they could have used a variety of beehives. The 26120s would have been a good choice as well and stronger. This info is out dated but you can see the difference.

http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/288-290.pdf

 

[hemi8]

So, what is the fix for the oil drainback? Half of the cat is out of the bag with the RTV dab on both sides of the head gasket, why not let him all the way out?:biggrin:
Mike
86 GN

 

[SMA]

About the springs: That's what they rated out at on the spring checker. Yes, Comp says these springs should be 130 pounds at 1.800 installed height, but 90 percent of the time Comps springs will rate higher right out of the box than what they are listed as. I believe this is because Comp gives you the rate they will be at after a heat cycle or two when they are broken in. I checked with KT Engines, and they verified that they expected the spring rate to drop a bit and accounted for that. Thanks

 

[NCTURBOS]

About the springs: That's what they rated out at on the spring checker. Yes, Comp says these springs should be 130 pounds at 1.800 installed height, but 90 percent of the time Comps springs will rate higher right out of the box than what they are listed as. I believe this is because Comp gives you the rate they will be at after a heat cycle or two when they are broken in. I checked with KT Engines, and they verified that they expected the spring rate to drop a bit and accounted for that. Thanks

Exactly... Why would you want to use a spring and/or installed height that will be short lived at the pressure you think you want?

Any dates on the engine hitting KT's engine dyno? Are locals allowed to spectate?


K.

 

[Mad_Trbo]

Dyno Dates

No firms dates as of yet, but we'll leave the dyno viewing at friends and family.

K -

Afterall I can't put it all on the table what fun would that be if and when we meet up at ZMAX.

You guys as the experts already know axactly what she is going to do and for how long too.

But, thank you for your interest.

 

[NCTURBOS]

No firms dates as of yet, but we'll leave the dyno viewing at friends and family.

That's too bad I've yet to see one of these engines on an engine dyno, it's usually the track or a chassis dyno. Let Kenny know the first Buick V6 he machined for me, that I built, is running 10-teens with only a few passes under its belt so far...

Afterall I can't put it all on the table what fun would that be if and when we meet up at ZMAX.

My / our point isn't to make the most horsepower or even run the fastest times.

Contradiction... I doubt we'll see the Sage car at Zmax... :biggrin:

I would love to know what you guys think of what you are seeing so far...

...Check her out and of course post your comments.

...If you haven't checked out the 1st and 2nd please do and post your thoughts.

You guys as the experts already know axactly what she is going to do and for how long too.

Definitely not an expert, but some here have traveled a few roads... I thought I/we were posting some useful thoughts...


K.

 

[SMA]

KT Engines has done work for you? That's cool.

 

[V6 Beast]

Stroker cranks are common at over 1000 hp., but with std journal dimensions. By grinding the stroker journal down to the Chevy dimension, you effectively reduce journal overlap a significant amount. K1 makes a nice affordable H-Beam rod with standard Buick dimensions. The weak spot of a stroker crank, is the journal overlap. That is where they break. I've seen BMS stroker cranks fail. The BMS cranks are a better forging/material, than the CAT stuff, too. I've seen them break at the 850hp level with standard diameter. Even the Chevy V6 has the larger rod journal diameter vs. the V8, to increase the journal overlap. (read strength)
The dry sump system is MUCH better than the standard V6 oiling system. BUT......the stock Buick v6 oiling system works, and lives fine at over 800 hp. Most of the gains (measurable horsepower) of drysump oiling is at high RPMs. Not that it is a bad idea, but it is VERY expensive. (as I'm sure you now know. ) Typical high end dry sump system usually run over $4,500 for the pump, hoses, fittings, tank, breathers, pan, filter(s), ect. I commend you in your pursuit of oiling, though.
All of the above, is, just MY opinion.

I broke a crank using those same Weber/Manley rods on a Weber forged stock stroke crank that had been offset ground to make it 3.55 stroke. I was running in the 700 hp range. Excellent videos.


Sully

 

[decarlo sloan]

4.1

Any updates yets on dyno?

 

[ALVAROG1983]

subscribed i like the vavle cover spacer set up.

 

[SMA]

A quick update: KT Engines had the engine on the dyno but the intake manifold had been bought used and apparantly been repaired before the purchase. It leaked water. A new one has been sourced to replace it. Hopefully, results soon. Thanks for your interest.