new headgaskets losing coolant don't know were HELP?

[nailheadpowered]

Okay I just replaced my headgaskets with the SCE copper gaskets with the compression ring etc. had the heads decked for trueness and the egr passages filled. bolted it all back up ran the car up to temp rechecked torque on the studs which are new arps at 75lbs and used high temp black rtv on the studs when screwed in the block. My issue now is i am losing coolant as i drive it around but no leaks no water in the oil etc. and also my boost is all over the place, it gets to about 2-3 psi and then it looses pressure as if i took my foot off the gas and I can here the flutter sound in my intake and if I try to give it more boost, I have had it as high as 10-15 but the car bucks and I can hear fluttering in the intake as if im taking my foot off the gas and reappling it. and on one occasion I looked back and there was a huge smoke ball from my exhaust. My question is, does this symptom seem like a cracked head? or something else. my build up is in my sig. please feel free to call me at 818-913-2800.
if the head or heads are cracked are they repairable or junk? these have been ported and polished and large valves installed etc. thanks.

 

[matt87gn]

Bummer, IMO..cracked head.

 

[JDSfastGN]

seems strange that there is no coolant anywhere yet its not filling a cylinder full of coolant.... when i cracked a head it filled the cylinder full of coolant very shortly after i shut it down. Not realizing what happened yet, when i tried to fired it off it kicked back broke the starter and hydrolocked. do a leak down test. maybe something went wrong with the head gasket install.

 

[nailheadpowered]

JD could it be that the head or heads have a small crack not big enough to fill the cylinders as a friend of mine said he had a v-8 chevy that after doing a rebuild etc. was having a similiar issue and found it to be a cracked head. if it is a cracked head are they worth fixing and if not what size valves do gn 1's use as i have the large 177 intake valves etc. and would probably transfer my valves and springs etc. to a set of aluminums if they will interchange. :frown:

 

[Cheeseburger]

Sounds like you have tuning issues as well.
You can try the gm seal tabs and drop a few in your rad and see if that helps.
Why did you choose copper gaskets, is the block o ringed for them?

 

[nailheadpowered]

no these are the new SCE coppers with the compression ring built in so there is no need to o-ring the block. these are the same ones duttwiller used on his twin turbo v-8 and ran 16-1700hp at 43lbs of boost on a dyno 50 times and no failures so i figured my car running 18-28lbs of boost would hold no problem. as for tuning that will not cause radiator to go low, I am supposed to take the car on wednesday to have it dialed in and dynoed but for a few hundred more if it is a cracked head i would rather get some gn1's and start fresh. is there a way i can check to see if i have a cracked head without pulling the engine apart?

 

[Cheeseburger]

and also my boost is all over the place, it gets to about 2-3 psi and then it looses pressure as if i took my foot off the gas and I can here the flutter sound in my intake and if I try to give it more boost, I have had it as high as 10-15 but the car bucks and I can hear fluttering in the intake as if im taking my foot off the gas and reappling it. and on one occasion I looked back and there was a huge smoke ball from my exhaust.

Sounds like tuning issues to me among your other problems.

 

[nailheadpowered]

Head gasket replaced issue?

Cheeseburger Im sure it needs tuning etc. but my main concern is the disappearing coolant is what has me worried as i am scheduled to have the car dialed in and dynoed but don't want to spend the money if I am going to have to just pull it all apart again because of a potential head problem. I would be happy to take any calls to discuss this at 818-913-2800. If its going to be the head or heads then im going to parley the dyno/tune money into some champion gn1 heads and go from there but would really like to get some insight as these heads have alot of money and work done on them and would be happy to keep them on the car and not tear it all apart again thanks mike.

PS I forgot to add that i had to do the headgaskets originally as i overboosted the car to 30/30+ lbs of boost. Don't know if that helps or opens more issues.

 

[nailheadpowered]

well i just checked the oil and BAM water in the oil looks like its all coming apart again to recheck everything and to have the heads pressure checked etc. anyone got a ready to bolt on set of champion heads?

 

[Joe Cancer]

Someone else (on the other site)had the same problem with the same headgaskets.

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44629&highlight=SCE+copper

 

[HellOnWheels]

well i just checked the oil and BAM water in the oil looks like its all coming apart again to recheck everything and to have the heads pressure checked etc. anyone got a ready to bolt on set of champion heads?

Long shot....pull valve covers and see if water is seeping out around the studs which will make its way to the valley then the pan. If water is apparent throw some GM coolant tabs and see what happens. I had the same problem until the tabs were put in.

Did you cycle (torque to specs then loosen) the studs at least 5 times before doing final torque per ARP? Don't know but maybe that could be a factor??

Then like someone said earlier do a compression test.

Good luck,
HOW

 

[my85grandnation]

If your in need of heads, I have a set of stock heads that came off a 40k mile car. PM me if your interested.

 

[nailheadpowered]

Had a curious question, after the heads were cut for trueness etc. when we went to put the intake on it did not fit correctly so we were told to open the mounting holes a little to get the bolts in. If the intake is not fitting correctly could this be my culprit? as i checked my spark plugs and they all look the same no sign of water in the cylinder. also what are the GM tabs that you are speaking of and do you add it to the radiator? also i only torqued then ran car to operating temp and then rechecked torque once. should i go back and recheck my torques? thanks.

 

[Cme2fly]

"Had a curious question, after the heads were cut for trueness etc. when we went to put the intake on it did not fit correctly so we were told to open the mounting holes a little to get the bolts in. If the intake is not fitting correctly could this be my culprit?"
That would definitly raise a red flag to me. I would take off the intake and check for trueness. When you reinstall the intake make sure you use a good quality sealant around the water ports. I use a product called the "Right Stuff" made by Napa Auto parts. I doubt your gaskets are leaking if you followed the correct torque specifications and checked the heads to be true.

 

[soundguy]

the water passage runs thru the intake and heads so if the match up isnt true, you nave an opening between them that will allow water to seep out and down into the valley below the intake which drains down into the oil pan. Betting that's where the water is flowing.

 

[HellOnWheels]

Had a curious question, after the heads were cut for trueness etc. when we went to put the intake on it did not fit correctly so we were told to open the mounting holes a little to get the bolts in. If the intake is not fitting correctly could this be my culprit? as i checked my spark plugs and they all look the same no sign of water in the cylinder. also what are the GM tabs that you are speaking of and do you add it to the radiator? also i only torqued then ran car to operating temp and then rechecked torque once. should i go back and recheck my torques? thanks.

Anytime the heads are cut, the intake also should also be. Most machine shops should know how much to take off the intatke manifold. If not the sealing surfaces will not match.

The GM tabs are put in the radiator. Their purpose is to stop small seepage leaks.

 

[nailheadpowered]

I think your right about the intake as when i got the heads cut i was going to use a felpro gasket but the intake would not fit right and there was a huge gap between the block and intake so i put the stock intake gasket on and the intake sat pretty much right on the block. i will pull the intake and put the felpro gasket back in and set the intake on it and measure the gap and then take it to a machine shop and have them adjust accordingly and hope that cures my problem. also i took my oil filler out and it is coated with the oil/water mixture also so looks like the valve covers will be coming off also to clean those up and while i have them off, I torqued my engine to 75 foot pounds and will recheck, should i stay with that torque or should i add some more torque to the heads? if so to what 80-85? also when retorqueing should i take one stud nut loose at a time and then take it back down to torque or loosen all of them up at once and retorque or just check torque accordingly? thanks.

 

[HellOnWheels]

i will pull the intake and put the felpro gasket back in and set the intake on it and measure the gap and then take it to a machine shop and have them adjust accordingly and hope that cures my problem.


The machine shop should be able to cut the intake where it should be, just tell them how much the heads were cut.


I torqued my engine to 75 foot pounds and will recheck, should i stay with that torque or should i add some more torque to the heads? if so to what 80-85?


ARP sez to torque "cycle" the stud fastners at least 5 times before torquing to final number. IOW torque the fastners to their proper torque and in proper sequence, then loosen and retorque....etc..


also when retorqueing should i take one stud nut loose at a time and then take it back down to torque or loosen all of them up at once and retorque or just check torque accordingly? thanks.[/QUOTE]


I would do ONE at a time using the proper sequence.

HTH

 

[gnxtc2]

Did you apply any sealant to the copper HG? Most people that use copper HG coat them with Hylomar or the copper spray. Most people that use the copper HG have a stage block with more head bolts. The chevy V8 also has more head bolts.

How much was milled off the heads?

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[nailheadpowered]

no i did not apply any sealant as SCE told me that it was not needed as it had the compression ring built in and the rtv/epoxy built in to the gasket around the water jackets etc. these are the new titan version. I am really starting to think its the intake as i pulled my plugs and all of them are of the same light brown color and there is no evidence of water in the cylinders. wish me luck.

Also as hellonwheels stated if the intake is not true which is a good possibility were i can not see it then that would also explain my lack of boost build or eratic boost as it would be leaking past the intake inside the valley area. I will update later this week or next thanks mike.