New hotair intakes underway!

[national84]

Well, the new intake design is well under construction. I will be updating this thread regularly with pictures and flow numbers for the new unit. We are going to flow it agains the stocker, and hopefully and 86-87 stock unit.

The most recent pictures are available at http://www.pro-motionservices.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album05 .

As well as some pictures of a custom sheetmetal designed and built by the guy I am working with for this kit.

Here is a brief rundown of where we are at this point.

The intake will have a front mounted 86-87 throttle body. To overcome the problem of clearance over the t-stat housing, we are sealing up the IAC, and mounting a remote IAC elsewhere on the intake..this system has been tested and works well. We will be welding up the stock turbo inlet, and the turbo will be clocked to exit forward, and piped into an intercooler.
Internally, the intake is literally gutted, and the restictive intake path for the charged air is eliminated and replaced with a large plenum area allowing not only more air flow, but more equal air flow to each runner.
We are anticipating the use of the stock 86-87 intercooler system with simple modification allowing the use of a front mount intercooler.
We have discussed the possibility of alternate throttle bodies and front mounts and may make that an "add-on" to the kit, which would change the intial cost.
Speaking if cost, we have not yet arrived at a solid figure inthis stage of development, but will be arriving at a figure in the near future.


BE SURE TO WATCH THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER DETAILS!

 

[national84]

Here is a shot of a custom Syclone Typhoon sheetmetal intake made by JS manufacturing. I think it will give you an idea of how good this guy's work is. This thing flow benched at a whopping97% efficiency. Thats about as good as it gets in the world of intake manifolds.

Her is the pic of the gutted intake, look at all the extra flow area in this thing now. That rectangular hole will be replaced with a permanent "dog house" like the performance models available for the intercooled 86-87 cars.

 

[WFO]

looks good.

you guys got a flowbench?

what size will you be porting the intake runners to?

 

[typhoon]

Of course Mike chooses to post a picture of someone's backside in some nice holy work jeans.

Almost like a supermodel posing next to a car or something.

To answer the flow bench. I don't have one, but have access to one anytime I need. Because benches vary day to day, bench to bench we are hoping to get a stock 84/85 intake, the modded intake, and an 86/87 and test all 3 the same day, same bench to get relative #'s.

As far as porting, I was suprised the ports are big inside intake, but neck down right before the head. Not sure what the thinking was there. I see some room for mild porting, but without extra welding and material on outside, the ports are small.

I am fairly new to buick world, but coming from the Syclone/Typhoon world they look tiny to me. Time to adjust I guess as I am sure the head is just as small or close to it.

Jeff Scott
JS Manufacturing, Inc.

 

[national84]

And the master speaks out!

What he said.

If you look at your intake, the port itself is not that bad until it reaches the little "S" curve at the bottom on three of the 6 runners.

As jeff said, there will be room for mild porting without blowing a hole through the side of the runner. I personally had no intention of porting anyones intake but my own, That is something each individual could do, or not do for themselves. We haven't really looked into that end of the project at this point.

With some welds added to the outside of the ports it would add room to open them up, but added welds would be ugly at the very least without major grinding to clean them up before powder coating the intakes.

Once the flow bench numbers are available I think the intake will be impressive on its own without the extra work.

 

[WFO]

hopefully you guys will be able to equalize the flow to all the cylinders.i ported my intake to the stock gasket(as far back as i could reach) over the summer and did some minor flow improvements to the inlet.i can tell you from reading my plugs that the front two are lean,the middle two are perfect and the rear two are rich .not too bad,but enough to tell the difference...

later,sean

 

[national84]

With the stock design, that is bound to happen. If you look inside the intake you see that the boost runs across the front 2 cyl first, then the second and finally the rear 2. This is about the worst design I can think of for an intake manifold.

The huge plenum area left by all the mill work we have done should go a long way toward solving this problem. There will literally be a large chamber inside the intake that should allow the cylinders to draw equally. If you look at the Syclone Typhoon intake linked above, you will understand what I am saying. This intake will work along the same line, it is just on a smaller scale with shorter intake runners. I wish I had the skills to draw out what I am saying...I'll see about getting that done to illustrate.

 

[national84]

Well, if you can excuse my limited skills, and use your imagination, you can see the redesign of the intake in detail, as well as the mechanics of the stock intake.

To be honest, we are not re-inventing the wheel here, we are taking a design that is known to work and correcting the problems it had. Those of you who have been around know what I am talking about.

Stock intake:

JS manufacturing modded version:

You will note that the stock intake first blows boosted charge across the front two intake ports, where the JSM model enters into a plenum area to allow for equalization.

Also note the milled away turbo inlet that allows for use of a larger turbo.

 

[national84]

WFO, I think this primative drawing helps explain the problems you are having. look where the air is/isn't going to go. If we could make better heads, we would have it made, but all we can do is work with what we've got.

 

[cool 84]

Ported runners are a must. You won't see much of a gain by just gutting the intake. While mine isn't that pretty with the welds, I thought it was important to port the runners to the 1200 gaskets all the way up. My mph on super low boost speaks for itself as to the flow potential of this intake. Even though the head ports are small even on ported heads, I matched the heads to the intake and they taper down through the port. I would think with the intake flowing more than the heads it would help ram the air into them and keep the velocity up in the runner area.

 

[WFO]

my heads are ported to the felpro 1200 gasket.i ported the intake to the stock gasket to insure that i wouldn't have any steps to impede flow.that was quite a bit of porting by itself,taking it out to 1200 size would be a pretty major chore.

i do have a spare intake out in the garage that i can do whatever with...i have the ability to weld aluminum at school,so maybe i'll weld it up and hog it out...

 

[national84]

I don't doubt that the porting makes a huge difference. Like I said earlier, I planned to do that to mine. However, according to Jay at Turbomotion, his intake with no porting was better flowing than the stock 86-87. I never saw his flow numbers, but am comfortable going strictly on his word.

Jeff and I have discussed going larger on the ports and have pretty much come to the conclusion that this should be just a basic kit, and buyers could do whatever they choose to the kit once they have it. This is in an effort to keep costs down. Now,I am not saying that we are unwilling to do the welding and porting, but it will add to the cost of the kit. I think it would make a nice option, as well as the option to use different throttle bodies.

Here is the issue with the porting: As cool 84 has said, the rough looking welds ar not the best finsh for the appearance of the intake, and as WFO has said, that amountof porting is a major undertaking. Now, once results are back from initial flow bench testing, we will have a little more data to build theory on, but if for example the flow gains are not sufficient, we will look more deeply into the porting of the runners. This is a work in progress adn we are open to all suggestions.

 

[BuickTV6]

Looking good guys. I am very anxious to see how this project works out, and the numbers u will recieve on the flowbench. I myself purchaced a V2 kit one of the last ones jay made, and im very satisfied with the kit, wouldn't trade it for the world. The idea seems exactely the same as the V2, cept the a few things i saw. Would be nice to have 2 different sides of the spectrum!

keep up the good work

 

[fullahotair]

I am just curious, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Couldn't you/anyone build a similar design, but instead of having it enter from the front, have it enter from the rear in such a manner that turbo would only have to be reclocked to fit in and there wouldn't be any other modificiation needed? (no intercooler)

For instance...instead of the turbo pumping into the intake straight down into the floor of manifold, clock the turbo 90 degrees so it points toward the front of the car and modify the doghouse to be able to accept the turbo at that point?

I guess one problem could be the the turbo potentially entering the manifold "past" the back two ports and thereby not recieving the best flow, although these rear ports don't recieve great flow anyway.

Just an idea, as i would think that there would be the lure of designing an intake manifold that doesn't require a lot of other mods... just an idea i had, thats all

 

[Bat]

Multi use

I have to go with fullahotair. Don't get the idea we don't appericate what your doing because we do. I'm starting to fully realize what the problems are with these intakes but, I'm not really looking to go with an intercooler. If this intake could also work without a cooler or can change over it would be great. Just my .02. I'm watching with great interest.

 

[fireberd350]

no offense but i think that re working the intake without the purpose of adding an IC is pretty pointless....the stock intake flows VERY WELL once it is ported out and the EGR is smoothed over. If you are not looking to go w/ an IC then thats fine but doing what your saying would probably make it flow worse and possibly what u said about not flowing to the back to ports. Just port yours out and you will notice some big gains!

i think these intakes will sell tho. I for one am very anxious. I have been trying to find a way to add a custom IC and make it look good and use little pipes and relocate the TB at the same time, and the only way to really do it is by using an intake like this.....keep us posted !

 

[fullahotair]

I am just thinking conceptually, if it was possible to rework a manifold in this manner to improve flow without the addition of an intercooler. I agree with you, Fireberd350, that such a manifold probably wouldn't be worth the hassle, but i am just wondering if such a thing was possible to in fact increase the flow with the only mod being a reclocking of the turbo or something minor. Just an idea i wanted to throw out there... Perhaps a ported/polished manifold will flow more than most any of else will ever need.

I would be curious to see if such a manifold could be developed in this manner and significantly increase flows

Thanks ,
Nathyn

 

[BuickTV6]

I agree with firebird on this one. Back in the day with the V1 and the V3 intake's, Jay did exactely what you're taling about. Had the intake ported and gutted and what not. The V1 left the turbo clocking position untouched, and the V3 reclovking the turbo forward so the boost could be entered through the front on the intake, being distributed to each port more evenly, however the Throttle body remained in the stock location. But the V2 intake was strictly for the use of an intercooler, and having the TB reworked to run off the intake like the intercooled TR's. I actually have the first prototype pictures somewhere around of the first V2 intake designed. The first prototype actually left the TB in stock position on thre turbo, and had the intercooler plumbing the same way. Only problem is that there was a fair amount of lag not being a "blow through" system. This is when another V2 intake was made and had the TB reworked onto the intake. So I would say if you want to stay hotair, just get your intake ported and gutted, unless u can find a V1 or V3 around! Just my 2 cents

 

[irockwithdirt]

Originally posted by fullahotair
I am just curious, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Couldn't you/anyone build a similar design, but instead of having it enter from the front, have it enter from the rear in such a manner that turbo would only have to be reclocked to fit in and there wouldn't be any other modificiation needed? (no intercooler)

For instance...instead of the turbo pumping into the intake straight down into the floor of manifold, clock the turbo 90 degrees so it points toward the front of the car and modify the doghouse to be able to accept the turbo at that point?

I guess one problem could be the the turbo potentially entering the manifold "past" the back two ports and thereby not recieving the best flow, although these rear ports don't recieve great flow anyway.

Just an idea, as i would think that there would be the lure of designing an intake manifold that doesn't require a lot of other mods... just an idea i had, thats all

Ok, dumb question. Would it be posible to just swap a 86-7 intake if someone were to fabricate a doghouse that would mate to a reclocked hotair location turbo?

 

[WFO]

it's been done,but was a major undertaking...