New hotair intakes underway!
- Thread starter national84
- Start date
Baseline testing is complete.
Intake is flow tested, and very close to ready to bolt on.
My plans have changed slightly due to some changes at my day job requiring I travel often the next few months, and the possibility of work relocated me.
With that said I pulled my original motor apart last night, to repair. As I have the borrowed motor in, IF i do have to move, I do not want to deal with shipping it back, switching motors at new house, etc.
So I am full force to get my original fresh motor installed, with the new intake at the same time.
It will slightly sckew the baseline dyno #'s, but stuff happens. I think people will get the idea and see the improvements.
One thing to note. Last night while pulling my stock motor apart, it was VERY evident which cylinders get more air than the others based on valve coloration. I will take a pic and post. Front cylinders for sure recieve more air than the rears do on the stock intake setup.
I am hoping to have my motor back ready to be installed in 2 weeks. Work and traveling is slowing me down at this point. Being gone a week at a time from home doesn't help progress.
Intake is flow tested, and very close to ready to bolt on.
My plans have changed slightly due to some changes at my day job requiring I travel often the next few months, and the possibility of work relocated me.
With that said I pulled my original motor apart last night, to repair. As I have the borrowed motor in, IF i do have to move, I do not want to deal with shipping it back, switching motors at new house, etc.
So I am full force to get my original fresh motor installed, with the new intake at the same time.
It will slightly sckew the baseline dyno #'s, but stuff happens. I think people will get the idea and see the improvements.
One thing to note. Last night while pulling my stock motor apart, it was VERY evident which cylinders get more air than the others based on valve coloration. I will take a pic and post. Front cylinders for sure recieve more air than the rears do on the stock intake setup.
I am hoping to have my motor back ready to be installed in 2 weeks. Work and traveling is slowing me down at this point. Being gone a week at a time from home doesn't help progress.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Well, the parts are ordered for the new engine, and as soon as the new cam kit somes in assembly should be taken care of in short order.
We got a pt63 turbo to try in the mock-up stage, hopefully that is a big enough turbo for those boost junkies that are interested in the kit. WE are not certain if it will clear in the current configuration, but the goal is to make sure it fits the final intake. This is capable of being upgraded to a precisions pt 67 specs...that should be plenty for some really interesting time slips.
That will not be the turbo used on the test car, we are just hoping to get an idea how big we can go for turbo selection with this kit.
Updates to follow
We got a pt63 turbo to try in the mock-up stage, hopefully that is a big enough turbo for those boost junkies that are interested in the kit. WE are not certain if it will clear in the current configuration, but the goal is to make sure it fits the final intake. This is capable of being upgraded to a precisions pt 67 specs...that should be plenty for some really interesting time slips.
That will not be the turbo used on the test car, we are just hoping to get an idea how big we can go for turbo selection with this kit.
Updates to follow
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Well, the rebuilt test engine is about 90% complete, and Jeff is in the process of mocking up a mandrel pipe from the turbo to the new throttle body. We are now shooting for next weekend to finsh the overhaul, and 1-2 weeks from now to swap in the new power plant with the modified intake and non-intercooled pipe system. Once the new engine is in, and the bugs are worked out (cam break in, etc) we will head back to the dyno for a few runs with the intake and no intercooler......also toying with possibly alky installation just to see what a little tuning will do non-intercooled for those of you opting to go that way.
It is looking like, other than mock-up, Jeff will be running methanol and no i/c permanently on the car, and once I get the ball rolling on my car, I will run front mount with this intake kit. But the goal is still set for a stock 86-87 i/c as a kit. Just wanted to be clear that you will have every option to run yours as you like should you chose to get one of these intakes. The possibilities are limited only by the imagination and your wallet/pocketbook. But at this point everything is coming together better than we had originally anticipated.
It is looking like, other than mock-up, Jeff will be running methanol and no i/c permanently on the car, and once I get the ball rolling on my car, I will run front mount with this intake kit. But the goal is still set for a stock 86-87 i/c as a kit. Just wanted to be clear that you will have every option to run yours as you like should you chose to get one of these intakes. The possibilities are limited only by the imagination and your wallet/pocketbook. But at this point everything is coming together better than we had originally anticipated.
Chad Oliver
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2002
So what's up with the intakes? Do you have one complete that someone can test? Plenty of us have good running cars and I'm sure you could find a volunteer to help expedite the development process. Racing season is just about here and still no results on the intake?
Is this thread going to die a slow death or what? It makes me curious how long it would take for you to have a customers order completed. Just a little rant since you have hyped your product on our board for months now.
your dyno results seem to be MIA.
Is this thread going to die a slow death or what? It makes me curious how long it would take for you to have a customers order completed. Just a little rant since you have hyped your product on our board for months now.
your dyno results seem to be MIA.national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
UHHH no hype here, just facts.
The new engine is ready to install, it should be in the car by the end of next week. Then there will be dyno results as soon as the engine is broken in. Unfortunately a quality product cannot be just slapped together, thats why we are spending so much time on the prototype. I would rather not ship 10-15 of these things and then find out that there was something we could have done differently(better) PLease realize that this is not a paint by number...we are making this thing with very little to go by, the TM kit was a starting point, but we are not duplicating that kit.
If you refer to Typhoon's most recent post, you will see that there are pics of the most recent progress. We found after installing the intake on the engine and locating a tight enough radius for the tubing that the intake had to be re-milled and welded again to allow for clearance.
Believe me, no on wants this thing to go together faster than we do, I have been waiting for this since the Turbomotion issues. I garauntee this will happen and the results will be worth the wait.
The new engine is ready to install, it should be in the car by the end of next week. Then there will be dyno results as soon as the engine is broken in. Unfortunately a quality product cannot be just slapped together, thats why we are spending so much time on the prototype. I would rather not ship 10-15 of these things and then find out that there was something we could have done differently(better) PLease realize that this is not a paint by number...we are making this thing with very little to go by, the TM kit was a starting point, but we are not duplicating that kit.
If you refer to Typhoon's most recent post, you will see that there are pics of the most recent progress. We found after installing the intake on the engine and locating a tight enough radius for the tubing that the intake had to be re-milled and welded again to allow for clearance.
Believe me, no on wants this thing to go together faster than we do, I have been waiting for this since the Turbomotion issues. I garauntee this will happen and the results will be worth the wait.
As Mike stated, we are trying to work out all the bugs first, not get it close, call it done and resolve issues later.
Couple things have slowed down my progress.
1. This isn't my full time work. My day job has recently required I spend a lot of time in Tucson Arizona. This doesn't help me get work done at home. If anybody is in Tucson though, shoot me an email and we can meet up for dinner sometime.
2. I also make parts for the Syclone/Typhoon crowd. Of which I have been around for 6yrs now. The newest product (suspension) has been overwhelming for me, and my first priority is to complete those orders.
Progress is being made, with engine installation scheduled for next wednesday.
Mike and I also plan to do an exchange, one design/testing is complete. We won't take a dime from anybody until an intake is complete and ready to ship. Not sure I can service any better than that.
That actual mods are not hard, what is difficult is where to cut/weld, etc. That I am still figuring out.
Good things take time. I have learned before a rushed product will be one that requires lots of attention and rework later.
Couple things have slowed down my progress.
1. This isn't my full time work. My day job has recently required I spend a lot of time in Tucson Arizona. This doesn't help me get work done at home. If anybody is in Tucson though, shoot me an email and we can meet up for dinner sometime.
2. I also make parts for the Syclone/Typhoon crowd. Of which I have been around for 6yrs now. The newest product (suspension) has been overwhelming for me, and my first priority is to complete those orders.
Progress is being made, with engine installation scheduled for next wednesday.
Mike and I also plan to do an exchange, one design/testing is complete. We won't take a dime from anybody until an intake is complete and ready to ship. Not sure I can service any better than that.
That actual mods are not hard, what is difficult is where to cut/weld, etc. That I am still figuring out.
Good things take time. I have learned before a rushed product will be one that requires lots of attention and rework later.
Hotair intake
I was following this modified intake post until before the holidays, it had good flow bench readings and looked like a winner. Has there been any progress since then? I was under the impression that we could start sending manifolds in for modifications by the new year. Let me know what has happened since then and what kind of costs are we looking at to modify just the intake, Thanks Mr. Buick
I was following this modified intake post until before the holidays, it had good flow bench readings and looked like a winner. Has there been any progress since then? I was under the impression that we could start sending manifolds in for modifications by the new year. Let me know what has happened since then and what kind of costs are we looking at to modify just the intake, Thanks Mr. Buick
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Well, we hit afew delays..."new motor" but are looking to get it in the car middle of next week. After a break in, new dyno results will be available. After those results we will start on an the intercooler mock-up, but if all goes well, and the only thing you want is an intake, that should be do-able in short order after the next testing stage.
As for price, we are not having much luck with reasonably priced plenums, so we are looking into making them from scratch, so we haven't settled on a solid price yet. We are also looking into having some laser work done on the flanges...bare with us please.
Like I said we are trying to get close to Jay's V1 price for the intake only which was $450. Right now we are closer to $650, but we're working on it.
As for price, we are not having much luck with reasonably priced plenums, so we are looking into making them from scratch, so we haven't settled on a solid price yet. We are also looking into having some laser work done on the flanges...bare with us please.
Like I said we are trying to get close to Jay's V1 price for the intake only which was $450. Right now we are closer to $650, but we're working on it.
Save your intake for when we are ready for this.
If you can located a 86/87 plenum that will help you out also.
I do have 3 extra intakes here to help in the rotation of things, but as I said before I don't want to take on anybody's parts or $$ until I finish the testing myself, on my car and feel confident in it.
If you can located a 86/87 plenum that will help you out also.
I do have 3 extra intakes here to help in the rotation of things, but as I said before I don't want to take on anybody's parts or $$ until I finish the testing myself, on my car and feel confident in it.
Hotair intake
Keep up the good work, I will keep watching and following your progress. I have a question about the improved flow of the modified manifold. Will we need to increase the size of the throttle body and injectors on a system like this that can flow much better than stock? Will the heads need to be ported in order to get the benifit? It seems like we will need to make many modifications in order to get the package to be "tuned".
Keep up the good work, I will keep watching and following your progress. I have a question about the improved flow of the modified manifold. Will we need to increase the size of the throttle body and injectors on a system like this that can flow much better than stock? Will the heads need to be ported in order to get the benifit? It seems like we will need to make many modifications in order to get the package to be "tuned".
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
The idea of this kit is that it will be a bolt-on piece. You will be able to run everything else as is and get a noted improvement. However, as is the case with any mod, the more you do to compliment the kit, the more you will gain. The hotair cars are pig rich with fuel to compensate for higher temps in order to reduce detonation. Thats why you saw the 10hp jump when we took some fuel out on the dyno, leaner is meaner to a certain degree. So, the stock injectors and 86-87 throllte body will work just fine, there are intercooled 86-87 guys out there running 11's on that stock TB, and while I recommend bigger injectors when you start leaning on an engine that hard, it has been done without them.
What we found on the flow bench should answer your question here. The intake will flow all that the heads can handle in stock form, meaning that it can't get any better than this with stock heads. Obviously if you were to gasket match/bowl port you will get more flow. But, again it isn't a necessity. That being said...Bigger heads are going to make more flow. I think the true potential of this kit will not become apparent until we get 8-10 of them out there and guys running different combos and trying different things. Just as it was with these cars when they were produced...more guys modding them in different ways made us all get wiser and faster.
As far as tuning goes, I think there are a lot of misconceptions here. Tuning a car is just a matter of maximizing the efficiency of the combination that YOU are running. If you have a stock car, you will need to tune to that setup. So, no additional parts are necessary to tune that car, however, introduce say an adjustable FP regulator and better exhaust, and now you have to tune to the max potential of those additions. SO, to truly "tune" this particular combo, you need to consider the other mods to your car, and either try different chips/fuel pressures, or work with some one who is a good chip burner/tuner to maximize your performance. Again, I refer to what I said earlier about no tfinding the true potential of this kit until several people have tried their "tricks" and seen what comes out of them.
Sorry to write a book here, but I am hopefully answering your questions.
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Oh, and another thing
Just a bit more insight into the tuning thing. Jeff has skills when it comes to computers, and experience in tuning the Syclone Typhoon ECM, we also have a few contacts that are (some of the best) tuners in that field and others. When the #1 test car is broken in for this phase of testing, we will attack the chipping/tuning. Hopefully we can show major gains between test runs on the dyno. Now, I am not saying that you will need a custom burned chip, a good hotair chip should do you just fine. Get a good AFPR, and some data logging software if you are serious about this, and you can "tune" a little on your own. If your a wanting every last millisecond of performance, I recommend the 86-87 ecm conversion to get access to more chips and better information. If you are turly deranged about this whole horsepower thing, your best bet is to make friends with a chipping guru, or make yourself a pile of money and give to one of the really good Buick tuners on the board here. Or do like we are doing, take the DIY approach, spend enough to pay someone else to tune it on the equipment and break a bunch of stuff trying to learn how.
Just a bit more insight into the tuning thing. Jeff has skills when it comes to computers, and experience in tuning the Syclone Typhoon ECM, we also have a few contacts that are (some of the best) tuners in that field and others. When the #1 test car is broken in for this phase of testing, we will attack the chipping/tuning. Hopefully we can show major gains between test runs on the dyno. Now, I am not saying that you will need a custom burned chip, a good hotair chip should do you just fine. Get a good AFPR, and some data logging software if you are serious about this, and you can "tune" a little on your own. If your a wanting every last millisecond of performance, I recommend the 86-87 ecm conversion to get access to more chips and better information. If you are turly deranged about this whole horsepower thing, your best bet is to make friends with a chipping guru, or make yourself a pile of money and give to one of the really good Buick tuners on the board here. Or do like we are doing, take the DIY approach, spend enough to pay someone else to tune it on the equipment and break a bunch of stuff trying to learn how.
Hotair Intake
I should have given you my car information: 1984 Buick GN with rebuilt motor, rebuilt turbo, adjustable wastegate, Walbo fuel pump, adjustable fuel regulator, Caspers hot wire kit, Casper wiring harness, 87 ECU, 87 MAF, 87 Ignition, Caspers Ultra chip, 36 lb injectors, Spearco intercooler, hooker exhaust, alcohol injection, turbolink, guages - Boost, RPM, knock, oil pressure, water temp, EGT
So the modified manifold should fit right in, right?
I should have given you my car information: 1984 Buick GN with rebuilt motor, rebuilt turbo, adjustable wastegate, Walbo fuel pump, adjustable fuel regulator, Caspers hot wire kit, Casper wiring harness, 87 ECU, 87 MAF, 87 Ignition, Caspers Ultra chip, 36 lb injectors, Spearco intercooler, hooker exhaust, alcohol injection, turbolink, guages - Boost, RPM, knock, oil pressure, water temp, EGT
So the modified manifold should fit right in, right?
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
While I am not making any promises, I would say this intake is exactly what you are missing from your build.
You will get killer flow from this intake, and piped to that intercooler, IMO you will be outrunning 86-87 cars after you get it all dialed in together, ie FP, correct plug, etc.
You will get killer flow from this intake, and piped to that intercooler, IMO you will be outrunning 86-87 cars after you get it all dialed in together, ie FP, correct plug, etc.
irockwithdirt
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2002
I keep thinking this so I gotta ask. I understand I am not the one doing this so if I am out of line I apologise.
I think the spearco kit? has you reclock the turbo forward?
Being that this intake uses a plenum.......and you had mentioned the posibility of just "making" the plenums........
For those of us who........at least at this time plan to stay hotair.........what if the turbo was reclocked forward.......then piped into an elbow into the top of the plenum?
Would allow less modifications and a more stock appearance.........while leaving future modifications open.
I may be completely missing something and this may be a dumb question.
I think its great someone is actualy developing parts for our cars.........thanks, Kevin
I think the spearco kit? has you reclock the turbo forward?
Being that this intake uses a plenum.......and you had mentioned the posibility of just "making" the plenums........
For those of us who........at least at this time plan to stay hotair.........what if the turbo was reclocked forward.......then piped into an elbow into the top of the plenum?
Would allow less modifications and a more stock appearance.........while leaving future modifications open.
I may be completely missing something and this may be a dumb question.
I think its great someone is actualy developing parts for our cars.........thanks, Kevin
national84
Heavy breather
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
Take a look at the pics Jeff has of the non-intercooled setup as it sits now. (linked above) There is a pipe from the Turbo to the plenum. Basically like what you are referring to. Jeff is going to go hotair permanently on his car. Re-clocking the turbo makes for some clearance issues at the hood and means reworking the wastegate, etc. These were some of the flaws we were trying to take out of the TM kit. I think once we get it all buttoned up and in the car, the pictures will help you to understand what we are going for here.
HTH
Mike
