Nitrous/Methanol Anti-Lag System Afterburner!
- Thread starter Alky V6
- Start date
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LOL
Here's the deal. I can't inject anymore nitrous/meth into the cylinders because the larger shot size would start over quenching the combustion process. No more performance increase can be had that way. But, what if a shot of nitrous/meth was injected after the cylinders while the ALS was active? Injected at the Y-pipe, just before the turbine housing?
The TC I'm using now is just a tad on the tight side (200-300 rpm) during the launch, but it's so close that I don't want to mess with it. Better to err on the tight side than on the loose side.
The turbo is performing great with the turbine a/r just a little on the large side, but there again, it's really close. I only need 2 or 3 more pounds of boost for the launch.
Three tiny tuning adjustments that are all working against getting this combination working perfectly.
If the TC was just a tad looser at the launch by 200-300 rpm,...
Or the turbine housing a/r was just a little tighter,...
Or the port nitrous shot just a little more powerful.
Of the three variables to play with, the easiest one to change seems to me to be the nitrous shot. We're maxed out injecting nitrous before the cylinder to be burned in the cylinder, but, can we increase exhaust mass and temp by injecting after the cylinder? The object being not to increase power occurring in the cylinder directly with the shot, but to increase exhaust mass and temp to get up on the turbo a little quicker, make the boost rise quicker, and accelerate the engine power rate of climb that way.
One nozzle with adjustable jets would allow a multitude of shot sizes to be tried to dial in the best launch attitude.
The best mixture would most likely be one that is close to stoich to produce the most amount of heat from the afterburn.
Right now the turbo is reaching 175 kPa in 1.3 to 1.4 seconds after the car launches. I'd like to better that by a few tenths.
Here's the deal. I can't inject anymore nitrous/meth into the cylinders because the larger shot size would start over quenching the combustion process. No more performance increase can be had that way. But, what if a shot of nitrous/meth was injected after the cylinders while the ALS was active? Injected at the Y-pipe, just before the turbine housing?
The TC I'm using now is just a tad on the tight side (200-300 rpm) during the launch, but it's so close that I don't want to mess with it. Better to err on the tight side than on the loose side.
The turbo is performing great with the turbine a/r just a little on the large side, but there again, it's really close. I only need 2 or 3 more pounds of boost for the launch.
Three tiny tuning adjustments that are all working against getting this combination working perfectly.
If the TC was just a tad looser at the launch by 200-300 rpm,...
Or the turbine housing a/r was just a little tighter,...
Or the port nitrous shot just a little more powerful.
Of the three variables to play with, the easiest one to change seems to me to be the nitrous shot. We're maxed out injecting nitrous before the cylinder to be burned in the cylinder, but, can we increase exhaust mass and temp by injecting after the cylinder? The object being not to increase power occurring in the cylinder directly with the shot, but to increase exhaust mass and temp to get up on the turbo a little quicker, make the boost rise quicker, and accelerate the engine power rate of climb that way.
One nozzle with adjustable jets would allow a multitude of shot sizes to be tried to dial in the best launch attitude.
The best mixture would most likely be one that is close to stoich to produce the most amount of heat from the afterburn.
Right now the turbo is reaching 175 kPa in 1.3 to 1.4 seconds after the car launches. I'd like to better that by a few tenths.
What do you think would happen injecting nitrous/methanol into an exhaust stream that already has a small mixture of nitrous/methanol burning in it?
It would have to use a stainless steel nozzle with stainless lines and hardware.
The nozzle could be plumbed into the existing nitrous and fuel supply lines.
Activate the afterburn along with the als? Or, delay it just a little so that the als has a chance to light off, and there is a nice flame source to ignite the afterburner?
It would have to use a stainless steel nozzle with stainless lines and hardware.
The nozzle could be plumbed into the existing nitrous and fuel supply lines.
Activate the afterburn along with the als? Or, delay it just a little so that the als has a chance to light off, and there is a nice flame source to ignite the afterburner?
It must be realized that the afterburner would only be activated for, at the most, 2 seconds. I can't imagine this large S510 turbine wheel not being able to take the heat for 2 seconds.
The n/f ratio could be richened if the temp needed to be adjusted to a lower value. But, the whole idea is to supply as much heat as possible in as short a period as possible, and then shut it down so that the turbo can take over.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
- Messages
- 4,383
Interesting idea, but what ever happened to your twin scroll, flapper idea that is similar to Sound Performance?
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/Sound_Performance_Quick_Spool_Valve/3643
http://www.spracingonline.com/store/Sound_Performance_Quick_Spool_Valve/3643
Pronto
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
- Messages
- 16,793
That's kind of like vacuum secondaries.
I've updated the thread on the spool valve in the fabrication section.
In short, the valve did work. It cut the 60' by one tenth of a second, but the als I discovered cut the 60' by over two tenths and the two systems wouldn't work together so the als won out over the spool valve. The spool valve is still on the car. Just not being used.
Thinking out loud to myself.
Questions that need to be worked out.
How close to mount the nozzle to the turbine housing?
How long does the mixture need to light off once injected into the exhaust stream?
If injected too close to the turbine housing, could the mixture not light off until after the turbine wheel? Just end up cooling the turbine housing down?
How should the nozzle be pointed? Upstream or downstream?
The length of line from the present fuel solenoid to the nozzle near the turbine housing would provide a built in activation delay. Even though the nitrous line would also be long, the nitrous would no doubt get to the nozzle well before the fuel would. How would that work out? Would the short period of time where only nitrous was exiting the nozzle help light off any stray methanol already in the exhaust that hadn't been burned up with the als?
How would the heated injection nozzle affect the fuel and nitrous before leaving the nozzle? Could it light off the methanol before it even left the nozzle? Would it at least cause instant combustion of the methanol as soon as it left the nozzle?
Should I mount two nozzles, one after each collector, or just one nozzle at the Y-pipe?
Questions that need to be worked out.
How close to mount the nozzle to the turbine housing?
How long does the mixture need to light off once injected into the exhaust stream?
If injected too close to the turbine housing, could the mixture not light off until after the turbine wheel? Just end up cooling the turbine housing down?
How should the nozzle be pointed? Upstream or downstream?
The length of line from the present fuel solenoid to the nozzle near the turbine housing would provide a built in activation delay. Even though the nitrous line would also be long, the nitrous would no doubt get to the nozzle well before the fuel would. How would that work out? Would the short period of time where only nitrous was exiting the nozzle help light off any stray methanol already in the exhaust that hadn't been burned up with the als?
How would the heated injection nozzle affect the fuel and nitrous before leaving the nozzle? Could it light off the methanol before it even left the nozzle? Would it at least cause instant combustion of the methanol as soon as it left the nozzle?
Should I mount two nozzles, one after each collector, or just one nozzle at the Y-pipe?
I've already accomplished it with the als. Just adding a little more to it.
I've finished the nozzle mounting. I plumbed the nozzle into an old plug fitting that I was using to block off an old narrow band (pre-turbo) O2 bung. Time to source lines and fittings.
I've been thinking about the n/f ratio to use. I think the best heating value will come from a n/f ratio that is a tad on the rich side of stoich.
I've been thinking of incorporating the use of the spool valve in the staging of the car. After staging, I would set the transbrake and go WOT on the torque converter. The spool valve would close as soon as I set the transbrake. On the release of the transbrake, the nitrous would be activated and the spool valve would immediately begin to open. The spool valve would be timed to open within .5 second. This way, the spool valve can get the turbine speed up to a higher value before the nitrous hits.
Instead of being at 94-95 kPa as the nitrous hits, I'll be at 98-99 kPa or better. I've already been playing with it in the garage. Every little bit helps.
I've been thinking about the n/f ratio to use. I think the best heating value will come from a n/f ratio that is a tad on the rich side of stoich.
I've been thinking of incorporating the use of the spool valve in the staging of the car. After staging, I would set the transbrake and go WOT on the torque converter. The spool valve would close as soon as I set the transbrake. On the release of the transbrake, the nitrous would be activated and the spool valve would immediately begin to open. The spool valve would be timed to open within .5 second. This way, the spool valve can get the turbine speed up to a higher value before the nitrous hits.
Instead of being at 94-95 kPa as the nitrous hits, I'll be at 98-99 kPa or better. I've already been playing with it in the garage. Every little bit helps.
I'm going to start off with a 50 shot for no more than 2 seconds and see what happens. Turbos can take a lot of heat. I can't imagine hurting something in 2 seconds.
A 50 hp shot with nitrous and methanol is nothing.
I'm already injecting a 364 hp shot into the engine. 
