Notes from my a/c conversion

[TLIMITED]

Yeah, it seems to be working well. I wonder if I should have used a different orifice tube with it. You got any experience with how different OT's behave with this stuff? It's labeled as R134a replacement, so maybe I should have used the blue OT.

For anyone that wants to order this stuff, the price per can looks really cheap, like $6, but they tack on a $23 hazmat fee if I remember right, no matter how much you buy. That makes 1 can really expensive, but if you buy several cans the price per can comes down quickly. I bought 6 and used about 2 and a half. Those 6 cans, with shipping plus the hazmat fee, ended up costing about $13-14/can when it was all said and done.

I always use the orfice the vehicle calls for.I buy it local for $38.00/case of 12 so its cheaper and cools alot better than R134.

 

[turbodave23101]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have a difficult question for you. I read the MSDS sheet for the refrigerant you selected. Butane and Propane are the two main ingredients!

I don't think it is EPA SNAP approved or even safe for that matter. I bet it cools like crazy, but it also sounds like a ticking time bomb if you ever get in a collision.

I can buy 30 pounds of r134a at Sam's club for $78. And a r-134a conversion uses PAG oil just like the GM bulletins recommend. Why choose that refrigerant?

(it's not really refrigerant, it is a fuel)

Turbodave231

 

[TexasT]

I'm guessing this is directed at the envirosafe stuff. Can we get a link to the msds?
Thanx

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[turbodave231]

Here is the MSDS for the Envirosafe refrigerant.
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/docs/59284_494.pdf

Read it carefully........scary stuff!!!!

 

[TexasT]

Thanks for the link.

I picked up some more duster as they had 20% off.




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[JDEstill]

No worries about sounding like a jerk. I would like to note that I started this thread to help out anyone that might be wanting to do some work on their a/c. I thought some of the lessons I learned would be helpful to someone. I noted the refrigerant I used in the interest of full disclosure. I don't want this thread to become a pissing match on which refrigerant to use. The info I posted is applicable to any refrigerant. The condenser I bought I specifically selected so I could go with R134a; I didn't want to get done with everything and then be left wondering if poor cooling was a result of using a stock style condenser.

Yes, the refrigerant I used is a mix of propane and isobutane. If you research it on various forums around the internet, you will find plenty of discussion on this exact topic. To summarize it, people tend to fall into one of two camps:
1. If you get a leak you will blow up yourself and your car!
2. eh, it's not that big a deal

My personal opinion falls into the latter camp. My thoughts are:
1. A catastrophic failure is certainly possible, but pretty unlikely. There's not really that much of it stored in the system, and you would have to have just the right leak to get the a/f ratio in just the right range to have an explosive mixture. It *could* happen. But then so can getting struck by lightning, getting bitten by a shark, and so on. I think the risk is small enough that I will roll those dice and not worry about it. Most a/c leaks are small and the stuff will just dissipate without ever reaching a flammable range.
2. Other refrigerants will burn too, if nothing else just because of the oil that's in the system. So is this stuff really that much worse than the alternatives? Some freons give off poisonous gases when they burn.
3. My car also carries around a bunch of gasoline, motor oil, ATF, etc... all of which also present fire hazards. Can you imagine the outcry if cars and internal combustion engines were being invented today? Way too dangerous! Heck, just driving around is too dangerous. Wikipedia says the US *averaged* about 33,000 deaths per year from 2009 to 2013. Can you imagine "Hey everybody! We've got a brand new way to get around! You don't have to ride a horse or wait for a train or anything! Take yourself where ever you want to go, when you want to go! But you'll be hauling around 18 gallons of gasoline. And it's going to kill 165,000 people over the next 5 years. Enjoy!" There is no way that would get any sort of federal (or public) approval.
4. What else do people carry around? A tank of methanol maybe for alky injection? Gee, I wonder if *that* is flammable? I do know one guy whose car burned up (a long time ago) from a leaky 7th injector set up. I don't recall too many "its not safe" concerns over those things.

So that's my thinking, agree with it or not. People in general have been proven to make very poor assessments of how risky something is. I think I run a much much much bigger risk just driving my car around in general than I am by having C3/iC4 as my refrigerant. Of course, maybe *I* am the one making a poor assessment of my risk I do have to give that some consideration... but I don't think so.

 

[Rugby]

I belive that propane is used as refrigerant in some aplactions. Just not in the automotive world. It has great properties for it.

 

[TexasT]

I belive that propane is used as refrigerant in some aplactions. Just not in the automotive world. It has great properties for it.

I bet there are more vehicles than you would want to know rolling around with it in there making the interior cold. Ammonia is a great refrigerant too. I'll stick with the duster in auto apps.

I just wanted to add a thanks for posting your project and how to. I didn't want to seem like I was bagging on you. I think that there is a seat for every buttock, many ways to skin a cat as it were.
Great thread .
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[TexasT]

I always use the orfice the vehicle calls for.I buy it local for $38.00/case of 12 so its cheaper and cools alot better than R134.

The orifice provides the pressure differential. The differential is what creates the cool. Using the orifice that makes the greatest differential would create the coolest. At least that is what I have read.
Am I wrong? I would want the orifice tube that makes it the coldest in my part of the country. Seems like staying with the factory boost. I want the best performance.

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[liquidh8]

I have been looking at this refrigerant for use in my hybrid wagon, already have all the new parts, I also have 25lbs or r134 already. But a wagon is a pain to cool, hence the interest in this is it blows so cold

Good thread, thank you.

 

[MCH86GN]

Regarding the sealing washers needed to allow the stock hose block to mate up – I saw it noted in a thread somewhere on here that we really need the black sealing washer. The compressor instructions said to use a black washer, but that particular sealing washer was not included with the new compressor. It came with 3 – a yellow, a green, and a red. Putting the yellow and green into the back of the compressor, it looked like they would work, so that is what I used. Once in the car and tightened down though, it looks like the hose block is cocked a little, just barely. Seems to seal fine – it held vacuum and it’s held pressure, no problem. But I wonder if the fit wouldn’t be better with that black sealing washer.

I initially used the red sealing washer for the discharge side and that is where I detected the leak. I still have the green sealing washer and I plan on using it. Hopefully it works.