You can type here any text you want

Octane Boost Additaves-do They Work?

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

BRAD_PADGETT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
3,587
Do octane boost additives work? I have an 85 GN which is dialed in with a real boost and knock gauge. I get knock on WOT sporadically depending on how I drive the car. I interpret this situation as having the adj waste gate actuator at the edge and need more octane than 93. Any Help?
Thanks- Brad

P.S. Jerryl-I will send you an e-mail-Your advice helped alot!
 
There are no worthwhile octane "additives" that you can buy in a little bottle.


If the 93 in your area doesn't have ethanol, then adding 10% will get you to 95. Another option in Xylene. Try searching the general forum for the work "xylene".

There are many other options for the street than more octane. A/F, timing, alcohol, etc are probably more practical than dumping in ethanol or xylene.
 
I would have to agree with Rich on this, there are no "additives" that are worth the money. There are many other viable options though.
 
Thanks for the advice. This answer means that my car is tuned to the maximum and will not go any faster without throwing more money at it. I am going to leave the car alone and enjoy it this summer. My zero to sixty is 6.02 seconds which should be a 14.0 quarter which ties in with my modifications. Thanks- Brad
 
Brad,

You are making GREAT progress! Keep up the good work!
First off, my advice is nothing more then what I have read and understood form this board and a few other boards. A few experts also set me straight a while back.

Running on the edge of knock is where max engine output occurs. It is also a "Tango with the knock devil", a VERY fine balancing act on the music between the "instruments" of Octane, Timing, Intake Charge air temperature, Heat , Air Flow, Pressure drop, Air Velocity, and Fuel delivery. Without a scan tool, the dance may be short lived as one instrument may be playing the wrong music for this "tango". A scan tool will indicate what instrument is off. :D Don't get discouraged, there a few things you can do and stay a few steps away from the dance floor.

As you stated previously, the Xylene (although effective to a point) is cost prohibitive and not the most productive way to stay out of the knock.

There are a few simplified options to reduce your knock with some suggestions listed below for resolution. This is NOT a concrete listing but should be a good start. Hopefully, the experts on this board will add to this, or provide better insight.

Reduce the boost - Adjust the WG rod. The lower the boost, the less combustion heat (lower compression), and the less chance of knock for a given octane rating and timing (All other factors being equal)

Reduce the timing - Review the Ultra chip documentation and run a setting with the lowest timing. I belief this to be setting #4. Ultimately, a custom chip, but not needed! You have all the programs you need for now. (It will be hard to find a programmer for the Hot Air ECM.) As I was told by "Turbo Riviera" and "Slow_85" - "You are giving yourself a steep hill to climb".

Increase octane - Xylene, or race gas are great for testing and/or racing but this is a cost prohibitive option for the daily driver. The higher the octane, the more heat (Boost) and timing you can run without knock. You also know that the "Stuff" (Insert your choice words) in the little bottles do not work.

Cool the intake charge in the manifold - Methanol / Alky / Water injection, or, intercool. I realize you are staying "Hot Air", so the intercooler is out. The cooler the charge before igniting it, the more timing you can run. Most run Methanol and there are a few kits available on the market.

Get the turbo in it's efficiency range - I belief the stock Hot Air turbo max pressure/efficiency is around 15 PSI (?). I belief intake temps can reach 350 - 450F around the 20 PSI range! Clearly an issue!

Increase the turbo size - A bigger turbo will also reduce the intake temps as there will be much less heat for the same boost pressure due to increased flow at a given demand. You need boost AND flow. (Then is are spool issues and larger injectors, etc).

Increase fuel delivery - Increase your fuel pressure 1 PSI at a time and check for knock. Be careful as there is such a thing as rich knock! Keep track of outside temps and humidity. One can get REAL scientific with this but not needed. (O2 readings and/or EGT should give a good idea where you are at)

There are also other ways to reduce heat and increase flow through intake porting and exhaust system mods. As stated in the beginning, this is not a concrete list but is intended as a good starting point.

Again, hope this gives some insight. Keep up the good work!!

PS;
If your engine is burning any oil, you will have issues. Oil GREATLY REDUCES the net octane of your fuel and you are aware by now how BIG the effect of 3 octane points is in a given range.
 
run E85 fuel in it, if it's available.
a half a tank of that stuff with half a tank of 93 octane makes for a 99-ish octane brew that should get rid of your knock and allow the ecm to bring the timing back up to make more power. i know whenever i put that stuff in my 84, it feels like a 50 hp gain on my butt dyno. and the best part is that it is 50 cents cheaper than 87 octane.
go to www.e85fuel.com to find out if it's available in your area.
 
Brad,

There is a gas station in Barrington on Hough St. (59) that has 110 octane at the pump. It was less than $4.00 per gallon the last time I was there. You may want to try some just to see if you are octane limited. I think it is a Phillips 66 but I don't remember, it south of Route 14 right after the train tracks.

Mike
 
Thanks Jerryl and novderrick- I am going to try the E85 fuel mixture first since there is a station not to far from my house. I will post the results. If get any knock after the E85 fuel I will wrtched down the waste gate until I stop getting knock.

The car does not burn any oil and runs great. I guess that my next step for later on will be in this order-86/87 ECM, Turbolink, adj fuel pressure regulator and see where that gets me. Then it will be a bigger turbo and injectors. Thanks- Brad
 
Originally posted by BRAD_PADGETT
Thanks for the advice. This answer means that my car is tuned to the maximum and will not go any faster without throwing more money at it. I am going to leave the car alone and enjoy it this summer. My zero to sixty is 6.02 seconds which should be a 14.0 quarter which ties in with my modifications. Thanks- Brad

you can go mid 13s with a chip, ecm, up pipe, fp, adj fp reg, and electric fan.....

how much boost are you running to where its knocking?
 
OK, the E85 gasoline sounds awesome, but what I have read on it doesn't:( Do a search on here Brad for E85 in the subject title and you will find guys talking about how corrosive the stuff is. All the cars that are meant to run on this stuff have plastic or stainless steal fuel systems......just something to think about:confused: Nick
 
Originally posted by 1QUICK85
OK, the E85 gasoline sounds awesome, but what I have read on it doesn't:( Do a search on here Brad for E85 in the subject title and you will find guys talking about how corrosive the stuff is. All the cars that are meant to run on this stuff have plastic or stainless steal fuel systems......just something to think about:confused: Nick

m85 and e85 are 180* apart
 
I added 8 gallons of e85 to my GN and have driven it about 40 miles. The new gas iniially caused more knock than 93 octane. Then the fuel levelled out and the car runs great with lower knock. I will continue to test this fuel and give an update on my results. I will also research about the corrosive of this fuel type. My next tank of gas will be 93 octane. Then I will test race gas because I have found a local place which sells it. Thanks- Brad
 
hey brad just wanted to ask u wat knock guage r u using? and would have any ez step by step on how to install this gauge ez and fast ?
 
Originally posted by TType84
m85 and e85 are 180* apart

So, what are you saying? I guess I also need to know what M85 is too? I am a beginner when it comes to different types of fuel. - Nick:)
 
M85 is 85% methanol. I cetainly wouldn't say it's 180° differeent from E85.


Flex Fuel Vehicles are designed to handle E85, turbo regals are not. But in many areas E10 is common (notice any stickers saying "may contian up to 10% ethnaol"?

E85 only has about 70% the energy content of gasoline. Higher octane - less energy. There wil be an optimum - use just enough to surpress knock. It will work against you fuel system component. I would stick to E20 or look into spraying it with an alcohol injection system.
 
I have answers for all. The E85 gas did help me reduce occaisional hard knock to slight knock(green warning lights). My owners manual specifically states that you cannot use more than 10% ethanol in the gas. For me, E85 is history. The owners manual also states the slight knock on acceleration and on hillls is a good thing because you are getting the best gas milege. I will run the E85 gas and adjust the adjustable waste gate down from 12ibs boost until I get slight knock on 93 octane.

There are two places that I know of to get a knock gauge. Casper Electronics makes them and sells them on on the Internet as well. I bought my Caspers knock gauge from Poston only because it had a black gauge face. The one from Casper's was white. I installed the gauge using a Poston gauge holder which fits in the tray in front of the shifter. The gauge is easy to install and took two hours only because I could'nt find the pink wire with a black strip. I found one by removing the radio. The pink wire is positve which is tied to the ignition switch. Thanks Brad
 
Originally posted by BRAD_PADGETT
My owners manual specifically states that you cannot use more than 10% ethanol in the gas.

This is because the OEM's would rather you not use any ethanol at all, but 10% is required by the EPA in some areas with air pollution problems.


The OEM would also prefer you not increase the boost, run WOT or change PROM chips. Of course at this point, they no longer care as your warrenty has long expired. ;)
 
I also checked the E85 website and it says that the fuel is for special engines and names them all. TTYP's are not on the list. Just my 2 cents. Brad
 
Back
Top