Oil cooler question

[JIm Duda]

Thanks Pronto. My wife agrees with you and would sell it to anyone that comes knocking. And throw my dog in for free! LOL. I had the engine rebuilt locally by Rich Groh so I am not worried abut that. I was debating about getting a new computer or going back with the original. Rich recommended the tuner and said that he has the program for the Gen6. As I said, it is running with over 1000 miles on the rebuild. I did speak with the mechanic that put it all together and he said to put in an oil cooler. He saw the oil lines hooked up to the radiator and put it all back together. He said that it wasn't recommended to use it as an oil cooler but thought it was better then not at all. I hope to get an oil cooler in the next few weeks and he will put it in. As for sticking with it this long, I figured "I know what I have and will fix it when it breaks." I was just waiting for it to break again. It did, 2 1/2 years ago, and I fixed it. I am more confident now because of who rebuilt it.

 

[MCH86GN]

Unhook the oil cooler, they'll run better every time. !!! I think there's alot more to this story.????

Really?

 

[williamsGN]

Really?

No, but most know that.

 

[Red C5]

Did someone seriously hook up your oil lines to the trans cooler side or does your tuner not know that there are 2 coolers on the radiator?
The one on the engine bay side is oil cooler and the bumper side is trans cooler. Not to mention the size difference too. I just can't imagine someone doing that.

 

[Ktbregal]

Hate to ask a stupid question but I just received a new radiator from you and I can't remember which oil cooler line goes where ? Thanks your radiator is a piece of art.

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[turbofabricator]

One VERY important aspect of the factory oil cooler is that it cannot be completely cleaned out after a bearing failure and must be replaced or not used. I will not warranty any engine if the same oil cooler is used after a bearing failure. Brake clean and compressed air just can't do the job. Now with that said, if you drive the car in triple digit heat, it would be a good idea to run an oil cooler but not NEEDED if you use full synthetic oil. You will make more power with oil temps above 200°f.

 

[Ktbregal]

Its a new engine and new alradco radiator. Does it make a difference which line goes to which cooler hole on radiator.

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[turbofabricator]

Yes. Front side of the Rad is for the trans cooler. Back side is for oil cooler. The lower fitting is the inlet and the upper is the outlet. This is to prevent an air lock. It really wont make a huge problem if reversed because the cooler bypass will open if there is a problem with an airlock. The oiling system on a Buick V6 works even though it has alot to be desired. The oil first hits the filter by pass then the oil cooler by pass before it ever filters or cools a drop. Not very much oil is filtered or not very much is cooled. At cold start I would guess less than 20% of the oil is filtered. At operating temp still less than 50% is filtered. The stock pump will pump alot of oil but any screw on filter will not b able to handle the volume.

 

[Ktbregal]

Thank you, when you say lower and upper do you mean the radiator or the oil filter adapter. Sorry just trying to get it right. I really appreciate it.

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[haywire4130]

The o.p. could have an aftermarket radiator with only a trans cooler in it or he could be running an f-body one. I would bet the latter, and his builder probably wasnt a fan of using it for oil because the trans cooler has smaller fittings/tubes than an oil cooler and would be a restriction? I run external oil and trans coolers, -6 fittings for trans and -8 for oil.

 

[jiho2]

The oil first hits the filter by pass then the oil cooler by pass before it ever filters or cools a drop. Not very much oil is filtered or not very much is cooled. At cold start I would guess less than 20% of the oil is filtered. At operating temp still less than 50% is filtered.

?!?

Bypass happens after the filter has collapsed, become clogged or otherwise obstructed. This is a last resort only, to keep the motor from seizing.

Pressure relief is routine but drains back into the pan.

In the normal case, neither should affect cooling or filtering.

 

[earlbrown]

Nope. filter bypass is open at all PSIs above the filter's bypass setting. There's actually two filter bypasses. One in the filter adapter and one inside the filter itself. The aren't on/off type valves, they're progressive and pretty much 'leak' at all times.

The pressure relief doesn't drain pack to the pan it's routed to the low pressure side of the pump.

 

[Ktbregal]

Looking at the filter adapter, which line is the inlet. Just making sure I connect the oil lines to new radiator correctly.

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[jiho2]

Nope. filter bypass is open at all PSIs above the filter's bypass setting. There's actually two filter bypasses. One in the filter adapter and one inside the filter itself. The aren't on/off type valves, they're progressive and pretty much 'leak' at all times.

I beg to differ. The bypass is a pressure difference valve -- difference between the filter inlet and the filter outlet. According to the shop manual that difference must reach 10 lbs -- inlet 10 lbs higher than outlet -- before the valve opens. Normally there is no difference to speak of, so the valve doesn't budge. That's why it normally doesn't wear out, unlike the pressure relief valve.

It sees FULL BLOCK PRESSURE on the outlet side, which is normally no different than what it sees on the inlet side. That's why the spring can be so weak.

 

[jiho2]

The pressure relief doesn't drain pack to the pan it's routed to the low pressure side of the pump.

Got me on that one, not very logical is it. By then my brain was steaming over. But the result is the same, that it's not relevant here. It rejoins the oil coming from the pan, shall we say.

 

[earlbrown]

I beg to differ. The bypass is a pressure difference valve -- difference between the filter inlet and the filter outlet. According to the shop manual that difference must reach 10 lbs -- inlet 10 lbs higher than outlet -- before the valve opens. Normally there is no difference to speak of, so the valve doesn't budge. That's why it never wears out, unlike the pressure relief valve.

That doesn't mean you're not wrong. The 10# specification you mentioned is the 'cracking pressure'. That indicated the spring should have 10#s worth of pressure on the sealing pintle. If you put 20"hg of vacuum on the low pressure side, oil can flow through that 10# valve at 0psi. There is pressure on that valve. Every pound of restriction from the filter, sammich adapter, lines, cooler, etc add to the pressure on that valve. That's why it's there. It's job is to allow all the extra stuff to be bolted on so we have the extras and still maintain sufficient pressure at the bearings.

Yes it kinda is a pressure difference valve. Actually it's a spring loaded valve with two different pressures on each side of it (much like our AFPRs). The spring is pretty much a fixed pressure and the rate of leak is dependent on the difference and amount of pressure on the high pressure side. Think of a leaky faucet... if you double the pressure the leak rate will increase with no other change. Much like our wastegates they don't just flip open in 0ms when you reach boost setting. The open progressively as the spring compresses.

What you described from the shop manual is to allow a tech to troubleshoot the system without knowing how it actually works.

Got me on that one, not very logical is it. By then my brain was steaming over. But the result is the same, that it's not relevant here.

Actually it's very logical. Why would you dump it in the pan and add windage just to cause it to have to hit the pressure drops from the strainer and block passages? On an unmodified oil pump, only one corner of the gears get wet until it's spinning fast enough to crack the pressure bypass valve. Until then the pump is operating in a lower efficiency mode until the RPMs come up. That's one of the main things I mod when I build covers. I overcome that restriction and let the pump have all the oil it wants from idle all the way to max RPMs.

 

[Ktbregal]

Looking at the filter adapter, which line is the inlet. Just making sure I connect the oil lines to new radiator correctly.

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[jiho2]

Actually it's very logical.

No, I meant that MY STATEMENT about draining back to the pan wasn't very logical.

I've been editing my posts after posting them, to clarify points. That's why the quotes differ from my posts.

 

[jiho2]

That doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Was I wrong to dispute the wild percentages that were stated about how much oil passes uncooled and unfiltered?

 

[earlbrown]

I don't recall throwing out any percentages. That math, and number of factors, is waaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the scope of an internet message board post.