Oil ZDDP supplement

Kirbans just started selling this stuff and was in there last news letter heres a cut n paste from it


Kirban Inner Circle 08/21/07-II


IMPORTANT NEWS THAT WILL INTEREST EVERY TURBO OWNER

We are proud to be introducing a brand new product
of interest to every Turbo Buick owner...

ZDDPlus

Richard Clark will be speaking on this important
subject at the Sunday Night Reunion banquet. He has also been
gracious enough to donate one 2-ounce bottle of ZDDP
concentrate to every adult attending the Sunday night
Reunion Banquet. As you can imagine, the potential of this
product is enormous and you are reading about it here
first. Plus, as an Inner Circle member, you are getting
a special introductory price! We recommend you tell your
friends and you can post this information on any of the
various forums. Currently, we are the main
distributor to the performance car market.

To learn more about ZDDP, simply go on the
internet. Keep in mind, some of the information
concerning solutions will not be correct. For example:
GM no longer sells EOS. It may also be true that
certain racing single-weight oils have ZDDP in it, but
it will NOT be the proper dosage for your turbo engine.

We have included special ordering information in this
Inner Circle mailing. We are only taking orders by email
on this product to the email address listed below. Orders
will ship the week of August 27th. However, we will not
charge your credit until we process your order.

Richard has gone to great lengths to make this project happen.

It is a well-known fact among engine rebuilders and
mechanics, older engines (especially pre-1988)
that have flat tappet setups require a well-known
oil additive called "ZDDP." The additive ZDDP is made
up of Phosphorus, Sulfur, and Zinc. By using the
proper amount of these three chemicals, it makes ZDDP.
This additive has been the most effective extreme
pressure additive found in quality motor oil for
nearly 70 years. However, in recent years, this additive
has slowly been removed from the various motor oils you
can buy at the local parts store for your Turbo Regal.

For that matter, this additive is needed by not just
the Turbo Regals but all of the older performance cars.

ZDDP is a surface modifier. It modifies bearing and
journal surface characteristics to prevent metal-to-metal
contact. Under the right conditions of heat and pressure,
the zinc in the ZDDP actually plates over the contact
surface and provides a sacrificial coating. As it breaks
down, it dissipates back into the oil solution and remains in
suspension until the right conditions arise and the
process starts over again. This reduces the tendency
of parts to scuff and gall under heavy-loaded
boundary lubrication situations.

Camshafts and lifters found in high-performance
engines definitely fit this category due to high
velocities and accelerations required to open and
close valves many times per second.

This condition is also found in the piston wrist
pins. In other words, this description clearly fits
the characteristics of our Turbo Regals engines.

Normal amounts of this additive of ZDDP in 1988
API grade SG oils was in excess of 0.12%.
The API grade of oil specified for our Turbo Regal's
in 1987 was SF. SF oil had ZDDP concentrations in
excess of 0.15%.

Until recently it was considered normal to add a
bottle of GM EOS to these types of oil for engine
break-in. However, recently GM has discontinued EOS
from their product line, making it a moot point.

Upon recent testing of a sample of EOS, we found the
concentration was 0.71% by weight. Since EOS came in a
16-ounce bottle, this means to boost a modern day oil
to protect pre-1988 engines intended for normal
driving, it would require two bottles of the 16-ounce EOS.
This is a costly investment each time you do an oil change!

Now that the EPA requires new car manufacturers to
guarantee catalytic converters for over 100,000 miles,
the use of such a product would most likely void new
car warranties. Newer cars with roller rocker assemblies
do not need ZDDP.

A product such as this would probably have to carry a
warning on the label stating *OFF ROAD USE ONLY*. With
the new EPA guidelines for oil manufacturing and
grading, it is clear that without using exotic
aftermarket oils or diesel oils, currently there really
is no good choice of what to use in older cars
that require ZDDP to protect the engine internals.

There are still some single-weight oils that contain
various amounts of ZDDP for Turbo Regal engines, but
being a single-weight oil is not what is required in most
performance engines pre-1988.

Richard Clark has packaged the proper concentration
of the ZDDP formula for a typical pre-1988 engine,
put in a ready-to-use two-ounce bottle. The proper amount
specifically for a five-quart engine.

Richard expects to have the legal issues resolved and
exact correct wording on the bottles by early fall.

In the meantime, we are able to offer introductory
sample-style bottles in various packaged amounts to
accommodate your needs.

Because of our close association with Richard Clark
and his various companies, we are the main supplier
of this highly sought-after product.
Richard has been working on this project for most of
this current year. He has a number of the various
other marketed additives analyzed and determined NONE
have the proper amount of ZDDP in it for a normal
five-quart engine requiring API SF spec oil.

At our upcoming Reunion event, Richard will be giving a
presentation on this important subject and will be
presenting test results from a major independent
petroleum testing lab on oil and oil additives that
are commonly available.

Remember, one single two-ounce bottle will treat a
regular five-quart engine, such as the Turbo Regal.

You have to ask yourself... how important is the
internals of your Turbo Regal engine?

Some of you probably own other pre-1988 performance cars.
This product will work on ALL GM-Ford-Chrysler performance
engines. The list of potential buyers is endless.

This additive is virtually impossible to find in its
pure form. In very limited amounts, it can be found in
some oils and additives but this gives you the choice of
using any premium oil (this includes any synthetic and
viscosity) that you may choose.

Currently, there is no limit on how many you can
purchase at this special introductory price.

However, you must email your order. Include your name,
how many you want to order, credit card information.
Email your order to the following email address:

zddplus@kirbanperformance.com




#7176 - Single Two-Ounce Bottle of ZDDPlus $8.95

#7177 - Four-Pack of the Two-Ounce Bottles of ZDDPlus $28 /four-pack

#7178 - Six-Pack of the Two-Ounce Bottles of ZDDPlus $30 / six-pack

NOTE: This product must be shipped separately. We cannot include it
with
anything else you may order. It can only be shipped UPS Ground to the
US.
PLEASE NOTE: this is being offered as a special item to a limited
market.
It will not bear its final labeling and it will not be in its final
retail
packaging. This means that the normal warnings and cautions that
usually
accompany additives and chemicals will not actually be on the product.
In order to buy this product, you must respond by e-mail
and include a copy of the following notices and a statement
that you have read and understand the information.

We will not be taking orders over the phone for this
item at this time. You must email your order to:

zddplus@kirbanperformance.com
 
Would love to see an oil analysis on this before plunking down $'s

there was one at the kirban reunion by Richard clark


every question and angle and comparison about all the additives and diesel oil was covered

it was very informative.
 
Analysis of ZDDP

Below is a portion of the literature passed out last night at the Kirban Reunion. I only copied the portion dealing with concentrations (see top of chart) of ZDDP sources as someone asked that question. Of course, to properly use this chart, you should know the concentration of Zn & P in the oil you are using. There have been at least two lists of those on this site already so if you do not know, check them out.
 

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Below is a portion of the literature passed out last night at the Kirban Reunion. I only copied the portion dealing with concentrations (see top of chart) of ZDDP sources as someone asked that question. Of course, to properly use this chart, you should know the concentration of Zn & P in the oil you are using. There have been at least two lists of those on this site already so if you do not know, check them out.

yes and what people need to know that were not there is
the .18 on the right side of the chart is what is needed to get motor oil back to 1987 standards.

look how many ounces of eos is needed :eek:
 
Why do we need this,

I thought the main reason for running the additives was for protection of hydrauic flat tappet camshafts. Just about everyone is changing over to roller cams, so whats the benefit for guys in my boat? I have just over 4,000 miles and everything is fine so far.
 
I guess its appropriate to post in this thread.
All the additives put in the engine oil are time/use activated if you change your oil too frequently your just draining the benefit into the catch pan.
I know there are alot of folks that like that golden oil look at all times but trust me its better to leave the oil in there for its designed life span.
Especially if you are using a quality oil with additives might as well let them work.

Source: LN Engineering.


....This also includes changing the oil too often or not often enough. Against conventional wisdom, engine wear decreases as oil ages to a certain extent, which means that changing your oil more frequently actually causes engine wear; these findings were substantiated by studies conducted by the auto manufacturers and petroleum companies, leading to drain intervals increased from 3,000mi to 5,000-7,500mi in most domestic vehicles. It has been suggested that no more than six months or 7500mi should be observed between service intervals and vehicles driven in more demanding conditions should be serviced more frequently, rather than based off of extremely long drain intervals recommended by European manufacturers, some in excess of two years and 15,000 mi. Vehicles with track time or sustained high oil temperatures or RPMs should have their oil changed after every event. Vehicles subjected to very short drives or sustained operation in heavy traffic should indeed be serviced more often. Regular used oil analysis is the best way to determine ideal drain intervals for your driving habits. With this knowledge in hand, using a quality motor oil with proper filtration and regular service is the best thing to do for your engine and to protect your investment.
 
Tribologists?

I am not a tribologist and cannot cite oil additive's chemical or physical characteristics, but I did attend Richard Clark's presentation Sunday night and it did appear he spent a lot of time studying the utilization of zinc diakyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in automobile engines. Among the comments (if I remember this correctly) was that ZDDP is sacrificial in that it plates out on parts, is broken up, reformulates and is used again. However, there was a life span (used up). It would appear to me that additives would similarly degrade/react with contaminants and the longer it is used, the less efficacious the product.

With regard to ZDDP, he advised that the optimum amount was 0.12% but because of its degredation over the recommended use interval, 0.18% was the concentration to be achieved.
 
Hey GNX243

Did Richard Clark explain what are the parts that need the additive he was talking about? I ask because theres been a ton of info on this subject posted on this board, and I was wondering if he has conflicting opinions.
 
From what I recall, parts rubbing against one another-cams, rocker arms...where there is a sliding surface.
He clearly said that modern oils are excellent for modern cars...the best there ever was. However, for our car...
 
Does that chart assume no ZDDP in the oil the additive is being added to, or does it assume the current maximum for automotive oil (which I can't remember offhand but I think is about 0.1-ish)?
 
Carl,
From my reading it assumes no Zn/P. However, prior threads show oils & Zn/P concentrations so you need to research your oil. What the chart is trying to show is that the concentration of ZDDP in ZDDPlus is higher than in other products for use in comparing cost.

What is interesting is the other carriers along with ZDDP in all of the products since none are 100% ZDDP...are they synergistic, additive, antagonistic or do they adversly impact other lubrication processes.
 
follow up question.

From what I recall, parts rubbing against one another-cams, rocker arms...where there is a sliding surface.
He clearly said that modern oils are excellent for modern cars...the best there ever was. However, for our car...

So when Richard Clark said "our cars" did he mean stock or rebuilt motors that have not been upgraded with hydraulic roller or solid roller cams and lifters?
 
What about "MOA" it was a thread topic on here some time back and seemed it was the best out there for maintaining good wear factors in an engine?

HOW
 
EPA did not ban these additives from motor oil. EPA required a longer cat life from the mfg's and they in turn required the change to comply with the longer warranty. I've forgotten the exact life but I seem to recall something like 120,000 miles by 2012.
A salient question that was not addressed was the oil change interval.
And there was no mention of engine mods...how could there be? Only had an hour.
 
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