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Old Question on Oil Lubrication

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Joseph2097

New Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
2

I have seen much said about oil "additives" and the benifits of using them.
As I do own a 1967 small block V-8 ( not a Buick though ),
What would the general consensis be on using ZDDPlus , with say,
Castrol Syntec , or , Mobil - 1 , would that be enough to protect a
non-race type motor from flat-tappet FAILURE??
This old guy (me) does remember when just single viscosity oils were
pretty much the main stay of the "back-yard-mechanic" (me).
I am in need of some guidance, as I just spent a lot of $$$$ to rebuild this
small motor, and want to keep it HEALTY.
Thank you for any help you can provide in SAFE OILS for Old Motors
that were recently rebuilt to FACTORY SPECS ( non-racing type ).
Joe Z. ( aka: Joseph2097 )
 
I would just use the GM EOS additive. 1 bottle to pour on parts during assembly, 1 more in the crankcase with a Dino oil for breakin.
Then after the cam breakin of 20 mins drain & fill with Dino oil again & 1 bottle for 200 miles. Drain & same again for 1000 miles. Everything is clean then 1 bottle with whatever you like. I like Dino to break stuff in myself but there are 1,000,000 opinions on this topic. I actually never use synthetic but change my oil every 1500 miles or more when racing.
 
stp oil treatment has zddp or zinc in it i put one in every oil change and use rottella t oil. never lost a cam. pulled it 2x on a rebuild and it measured perfect on the lobes
 
ZDDPlus - STP

Thank you all for the reply = I guess NOW I need to go read some
package information, just to check the ZINC contant.

Thak you all for your help.
Joe Z. ( aka: Joseph2097 )
 
And that would be why?

My info is that blue has more protection than the red.:confused:

nick------my tests showed little difference in the red vs blue content except for viscosity-----and its Z&P is rather low-----thats why it doesn't have a warning not to use it in newer cars------it doesn't need it------a company the size of STP could never chance marketing an additive that could affect new car warranties without some sort of notice--------as for GM EOS it is a great product-------- the same formulation as ZDDPlus--------only difference is ZDDPlus is 8 times more concentrated making it half the price for the same amount of $..................RC
 
Oops, you're right, red not blue. Blus has slightly more ZDP but is much thicker. Stolen from BITOG::

-------------------------------------

STP 4-Cylinder Oil Treatment (Red 15 ounce bottle).

Elemental Analysis (ppm)
Copper: 0
Iron: 1
Chrome: 0
Nickel: 0
Titanium: 0
Silver: 0
Lead: 0
Tin: 1
Alum: 0
Silicon: 0
Sodium: 0
Potassium: 0
Moly: 0
Boron: 0
Barium: 0
Calcium: 1371
Magnesium: 5
Mangan: 0
Phosphorus: 1814
Zinc: 1959

Viscosity cSt @ 100C: 108.0

Ferrous Debris: 31

I called STP today and a tech person there told me that the blue bottle, regular STP, has more ZDDP, but not by much, and it is about 500 cSt!
------------------------------------------------
 
From what I've read, the Crane Cams lube is even higher in ZDP than EOS, ZDDPplus and CamShield. You add like 1/2 to 1 oz per oil change.
 
From what I've read, the Crane Cams lube is even higher in ZDP than EOS, ZDDPplus and CamShield. You add like 1/2 to 1 oz per oil change.

you are completely wrong about this-----i have a large event at my shop this weekend and when its over i will post some technical facts for you..........RC
 
Oops, you're right, red not blue. Blus has slightly more ZDP but is much thicker. Stolen from BITOG::

-------------------------------------

STP 4-Cylinder Oil Treatment (Red 15 ounce bottle).

Elemental Analysis (ppm)
Copper: 0
Iron: 1
Chrome: 0
Nickel: 0
Titanium: 0
Silver: 0
Lead: 0
Tin: 1
Alum: 0
Silicon: 0
Sodium: 0
Potassium: 0
Moly: 0
Boron: 0
Barium: 0
Calcium: 1371
Magnesium: 5
Mangan: 0
Phosphorus: 1814
Zinc: 1959

Viscosity cSt @ 100C: 108.0

Ferrous Debris: 31

I called STP today and a tech person there told me that the blue bottle, regular STP, has more ZDDP, but not by much, and it is about 500 cSt!
------------------------------------------------

do you know how to do the math to show what you end up with when you add a bottle of STP with 1814/1959 PPM of P&Z to a 5 quart oil change ?????-----from what you have posted it would seem you don't------before i explain it to you want to give it a try????--------i'll give you a clue-------its a insignificant change to SM oil-------give it a try and i will do the math for you if you don't get it right..........RC
 

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do you know how to do the math to show what you end up with when you add a bottle of STP with 1814/1959 PPM of P&Z to a 5 quart oil change ?????-----from what you have posted it would seem you don't------before i explain it to you want to give it a try????--------i'll give you a clue-------its a insignificant change to SM oil-------give it a try and i will do the math for you if you don't get it right..........RC

Hmm. Since I have 2 degrees in electrical engineering I feel that math is my strong point. So I take that as a challenge and will present my answer.

Assume the 5 quarts of base oil has a Zn concentration of 1000 ppm.
15 ounces of STP with 1959 ppm of Zn will yield 15/32 x 1959 (or 918.3) ppm per quart. In 5.47 quarts (remember the the extra 15 oz) that will give 918.3/5.47 or 167.9 ppm. So add that to the 1000 x (5/5.47), and you get 914.1 + 167.9 or 1082 ppm total.

Likewise for the P.
 
STP & Dilution Math

To address the issues raised to date:

Crane Cams lube:

From the looks of both the document title and the format of the page, it looks like the analysis that you linked to was performed at Blackstone. For testing oils with elemental concentrations in the range of normal oils, Blackstone is a reliable and inexpensive lab to use. We use them often for this reason, however like all other "consumer" oil analysis laboratories, their procedures are designed for oils whose elemental makeup is in the normal range for oils.

A giveaway that the test may be in error is the fact that the phosphorus reading is higher than the zinc, with the P to Zn ratio of 1.03:1. In most ZDDP molecules, the ratio of P to Zn is around 0.9:1. Some ZDDPs are processed with an excess of zinc compounds, which makes the ratio even lower, with most commercial preparations in the 0.7:1 to 0.8:1 range, as are both GM EOS and ZDDPlus.

Our tests of the Crane product at SRI (Soutwest Research Institute) showed numbers considerably lower than those given by your link to the Bob the Oil Guy website.

When testing concentrates, special dilutions must be done before testing to bring these elemental concentrations down into the range of the equipment. We have worked closely with Blackstone in the last few months to perfect a procedure specifically for ZDDPlus and other concentrates after initially getting erroneous reports from them. We knew the initial reports were in were in error, because when we first qualify a lab, we send samples both to the prospective lab and to a well-established petrochemical industrial lab such as SRI, which gave us a different analysis.

Unfortunately ASTM analyses such as those done at SRI are costly, and can be hundreds of dollars per test for a single element.

After working with Ryan at Blackstone on this issue for a few months, we now feel that if someone sends a concentrate sample and specifically tells them that it needs to have an up-front 40:1 dilution using white oil before testing, they should be able to get reliable results.

BTW, this subject is covered in greater detail in our ZPlus Tech Brief #7, available at ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More


STP Dosing:

OK, since you obviously have a handle on the math, I would say then the issue here is one of what is considered a significant change. We would consider that spending the money for a bottle of STP and diluting over 8% of your oil with an unknown gooey oil to merely get an 8.2% increase in P or Zn level not the choice that an engineer would make. Since most SM oils average around 600 ppm of P and 800 ppm of Zn, a single bottle of STP does little to address the issue. It was this exact situation that led us to make ZDDPlus.

Research clearly indicates that adequate protection for solid lifter cams in high-performance engines requires ZDDP resulting in a phosphorus level well in excess of 1000 ppm. Since you are good with math, you should be able to see that a bottle of STP does little when added to 5 quarts of API SM oil. If you factor in depletion of ZDDP over the life of the oil change, it is wise to start with a level considerably higher than 1000 ppm.

For more information on depletion, see ZDDPlus Tech Brief #8, available at ZDDPlus™ - ZDDP Additive for Classic Cars - Agricultural Equipment & More

One bottle of ZDDPlus will increase the Zn and P levels ten times that of the bottle of STP, making it a better buy on an ounce for ounce basis, and you do not end up diluting your oil with an unknown oil.
 
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