? on the zpaks and other 700R4 parts

overdriv

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Hi guys, going to build up a max effort 700R4 for my S10 street strip truck. It has a 406SBC that is built mild with 375-400HP & 400-425lb. ft. of torque. It's got a narrowed 9" 4.56 rear running 31X18.5X15 MT Sportsman on the street and a set of Hoosiers 31X14X15 slicks for the strip.

The 700R4 that is in it now I rebuilt in 2001. I did all the modifications to it that I read about and was suggested. I used a TCI kit with their manual/auto shift kit, I't works very well. I have a 2800RPM PATC converter with the 12"carbon clutch. The truck is a hoot to drive.

The problem is 4th gear is starting to slide in instead of a firm engagement. As a matter of fact it never did have a firm engagement like 2nd. Third engages well but not like 2nd. I suppose I'm burning the 3-4 clutch and/or the 2-4 band. I don't recall what band was used in the kit, but I do know all clutches and the band were red.

My goal is to build an all out effort 700R4 that will reliably handle WOT shifts into 3rd and 4th. I need to maintain the manual/auto control. It will see 90% street use 10% strip use. But it will see some hard street use. And strip performance is more important. I'll be using a 1993 core out of a Caprice.

I guess the first questions is; is this doable?

I know about the "beast" sunshell and the reinforcing band in the input housing. My questions involve the best clutches to use that will meet my goal.

The Raybestos Z-Pak sounds good and a few people in other forums indicate good luck with them. But will they take a WOT shift into 4th and come back for more? Is there something better?

What about the best clutches for the rest of the trans? Red, blue?

From what I've read, the carbon wide band on a new drum seems to be the preferred parts to use for the 2-4 band. But is that the best to use for my application?

I plan to use the preferred sprags as I have in my current 700 and the 5 pinion planetarys.

Any comments are welcome. Sorry for the long winded post.
 
This post got a bit off topic but, I'd hoped some of the tech here would respond. I get the feeling they only post to their customers. I also understand they are busy people with a living to make. If that is the case, that's cool I understand, but someone needs to tell the newbies what the unwritten rules are here.

Thanks, this is a great forum.
 
specific to your questions

700r4 is not a performance transmission. The input drum will not take alot of horsepower or torque regardless of all band aids to make it work. Rossler Transmission has some F-Bodys running real fast with some realiability but it will always be maintenance issue.
 
700r4 is not a performance transmission. The input drum will not take alot of horsepower or torque regardless of all band aids to make it work. Rossler Transmission has some F-Bodys running real fast with some realiability but it will always be maintenance issue.

I understand and am OK with that. This trans will not see steady track use. I just want to build it as best as can be done. One never knows what improvement will be coming up.
 
The 3-4 clutches stay applied for 3rd-4th and the band is reapplied for 4th while the clutches are still holding. This leans towards the band if your 4th is getting weak. The outer servo (in the cover) is where 4th comes in. You can buy the billet 4th which has a larger apply area than the factory which will help. I never block off the 4th accumulators completely since in some cars if you shift to 4th and the converter is locked up, the back window can pop out. Seen a 66 Chevelle do this and an 86 MCSS.

I have not personally used the Zpac myself but my supplier here has and he builds some pretty stout stuff and doesn't have any complaints.

The problem is 4th gear is starting to slide in instead of a firm engagement. As a matter of fact it never did have a firm engagement like 2nd. Third engages well but not like 2nd. I suppose I'm burning the 3-4 clutch and/or the 2-4 band. I don't recall what band was used in the kit, but I do know all clutches and the band were red.

My goal is to build an all out effort 700R4 that will reliably handle WOT shifts into 3rd and 4th. I need to maintain the manual/auto control. It will see 90% street use 10% strip use. But it will see some hard street use. And strip performance is more important. I'll be using a 1993 core out of a Caprice.

I guess the first questions is; is this doable?

I know about the "beast" sunshell and the reinforcing band in the input housing. My questions involve the best clutches to use that will meet my goal.

The Raybestos Z-Pak sounds good and a few people in other forums indicate good luck with them. But will they take a WOT shift into 4th and come back for more? Is there something better?

What about the best clutches for the rest of the trans? Red, blue?

From what I've read, the carbon wide band on a new drum seems to be the preferred parts to use for the 2-4 band. But is that the best to use for my application?

I plan to use the preferred sprags as I have in my current 700 and the 5 pinion planetarys.

Any comments are welcome. Sorry for the long winded post.
 
The 3-4 clutches stay applied for 3rd-4th and the band is reapplied for 4th while the clutches are still holding. This leans towards the band if your 4th is getting weak. The outer servo (in the cover) is where 4th comes in. You can buy the billet 4th which has a larger apply area than the factory which will help. I never block off the 4th accumulators completely since in some cars if you shift to 4th and the converter is locked up, the back window can pop out. Seen a 66 Chevelle do this and an 86 MCSS.

I have not personally used the Zpac myself but my supplier here has and he builds some pretty stout stuff and doesn't have any complaints.

My current trans has the corvette servo. Will a billet servo help even if I've probably slipped the band a few times?

In a discussion with a Raybestos tech, he also indicated the Z-pak was probably up to the task, but he preferred the Gen II Blue Plates in this type application. So unless someone talks me out of it, I'll use the blue plates in 3-4 clutch.

Thanks for your comments.
 
The Corvette servo is the inner servo. Has nothing to do with 4th gear. That is the piston inside the cover. The Corvette servo is usually numbered 094 as apposed to the 053 or 054 servos. The one that some people reverse inside the side cover is the 4th piston. Applies from the tip of the apply pin after the 2nd servo is assembled. After the spring, washer and little snap ring (e-clip). Not the side that actually faces in towards the trans. :)
 
The Corvette servo is the inner servo. Has nothing to do with 4th gear. That is the piston inside the cover. The Corvette servo is usually numbered 094 as apposed to the 053 or 054 servos. The one that some people reverse inside the side cover is the 4th piston. Applies from the tip of the apply pin after the 2nd servo is assembled. After the spring, washer and little snap ring (e-clip). Not the side that actually faces in towards the trans. :)

So the billet servo, will it work with the corvette servo already installed? The billet servo, is the 4th apply piston larger than stock?

I just ordered this, Superior #K034

Should I install this at the same time? Superior # K012

Thanks for the help! I'm hoping this is something I can do to my current 700 to improve the 4th shift.
 
The 034 is the servo I was refering to. I have used those with excellent results. A few in bigblock appications and one is now around 8 years old and the guy is still happy with his trans. I have only used a couple of the billet 2nd servos as usually the input shaft to input drum fractures at the splines before the billet servo is actually needed. Never had a band fail with the Corvette servo yet. ;) I make my own valve body kits as I have tried lots of kits and really experimented with my own 700's as to what I do to them. I don't care for the B&M kits as I don't like to block off accumulators as that is not really engineering in my book. :) You can install the billet 2nd as more apply area is never bad but spend the money where needed the most.

So the billet servo, will it work with the corvette servo already installed? The billet servo, is the 4th apply piston larger than stock?

I just ordered this, Superior #K034

Should I install this at the same time? Superior # K012

Thanks for the help! I'm hoping this is something I can do to my current 700 to improve the 4th shift.
 
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