pay out @ BG
- Thread starter Lee Thompson
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BigDaddy said:
Based on discussions of all this in many previous years, my understanding is that the "club" is a for-profit corporation owned solely by Lassiter. If he is not the sole owner on paper, he certainly controls things in practice. His marbles, his rules, play by them or go home.
Yea that's the point Warren...I guess I"m still sore from the $260 bux it cost me last year to register, race two days and four spectator tickets. I know it cost money to put on an event of that magnitude, but there's no way it cost more than an Indy track rental for the week. Why are payouts at Indy so much more than BG?
GNregistry
Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2002
- Messages
- 865
New Event has to offer something back
If you were going to put on a show like GS Nationals or at Indy and you were the new guy on the block, starting a new event, Indy is the ideal location to a lot of Buick owners and the United States... It is in the summer after school is out... hopefully great weather, but knowing the way it has been, it has been wet in the midwest....????
It is really about racing and getting people in the stands to watch a great show... burnouts, smoking tires, hard buick launches that lift the tires and turbo spooling from 7 and 8 second cars, that is awesome... plus the heart pumping Big Blocks that shake your entire body if your really close to them smoking tires....
John knows what to do and has experience to get the job done!
Race Payout is the KEY and that is a NO BRAINER!!!
Hopefully the weather is great...
The highest car count was the TSM class.
If you were going to put on a show like GS Nationals or at Indy and you were the new guy on the block, starting a new event, Indy is the ideal location to a lot of Buick owners and the United States... It is in the summer after school is out... hopefully great weather, but knowing the way it has been, it has been wet in the midwest....????
It is really about racing and getting people in the stands to watch a great show... burnouts, smoking tires, hard buick launches that lift the tires and turbo spooling from 7 and 8 second cars, that is awesome... plus the heart pumping Big Blocks that shake your entire body if your really close to them smoking tires....
John knows what to do and has experience to get the job done!
Race Payout is the KEY and that is a NO BRAINER!!!
Hopefully the weather is great...
The highest car count was the TSM class.
puddinpower
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
- Messages
- 257
Jim Dotson had a Stroke and said that after he got a little sideways at half track last year when his car was twins,He said he was concerned that if it happened again this year he might not be able to correct it as fast.
Jim is good people,known him since 1988,stand up guy!!
Just my .02 worth
Puddin
Jim is good people,known him since 1988,stand up guy!!
Just my .02 worth
Puddin
GNregistry
Member
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- Apr 7, 2002
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- 865
Insurance/Track Rental/Track Personnel
Why is everything so damn expensive?
One Word - INSURANCE
The pink hats don't cost much and those who wear them are VOLUNTEERS, we/they do it for the fun of it... I guess something like racing.... I don't how many TR and BB racers go to the GS Nationals to pay bills racing for money.... I tend to think it is about the BRAGGING rights of who does what with what they have...
The payouts are not that good... but it is one year!
If you had a 25th Wedding Anniversary and had a big ass party and invited everyone and then the following year for the 26th year had another --- would it be the same... NO... it would be very similar to what the turnout was this year....
The money that goes to racers is up to the class and participants... Why do you think Red sponsors the race he is in and doesn't want others to compete if they may win and take home the $$$$... You to can sponsor your class and hopefully win and take home the money and etc...
It is just to bad we all can't get along and play nice, but that would be a perfect world where V6 Turbos never break parts and always win...
Be happy for the event and the opportunity to meet all those people who come to these Buick Forums....
As Dusty Bradford stated... he was able to test and tune things in One week that would have taken lots of emails, phone calls and etc AND could have taken him longer if not for the help from GS Nationals racers...
Oh yeah just cuz a vendor states they have bought and sold over 200 TR and want you to think they know what they are talking about doesn't mean they do... they are just selling their product to make money.... For instance, in a book, it is stated that all Grand Nationals/GNX's came with a sticker on the ashtry like the GNX, so... If you want to make your TR stock ORIGINAL, you need to buy the stickers to place on your ash try behind the driver seat. Only $2 set... So then I went to Rodney Sanders 87 Buick Grand National with 60 ORIGINAL Miles and asked him why he removed the sticker.. He stated NOTHING has been removed and that everything is STOCK Original... stay tune for detailed photo page of this sweet car... It is just like my GN except I used mine, meaning options and cosmetic appearance, not color or make...LOL
It has been 2 years in a row...(last year and this year) I talked to Dennis Kirban at his vendor spot and asked questions and each time and both years, he says "Buy this book and read it", oh yeah you should buy this book too... But the point is if he wants to be in the TR market, then he should take the time, after all we are the customer... I felt as if I was wasting his time and that I should just move along.... BTW if people came up to buy stuff... I waited until they left and resumed talking, but this was on Tuesday or Wednesday and not many people around... Am the only one you feels like this!
until next time, enjoy life today!
Why is everything so damn expensive?
One Word - INSURANCE
The pink hats don't cost much and those who wear them are VOLUNTEERS, we/they do it for the fun of it... I guess something like racing.... I don't how many TR and BB racers go to the GS Nationals to pay bills racing for money.... I tend to think it is about the BRAGGING rights of who does what with what they have...
The payouts are not that good... but it is one year!
If you had a 25th Wedding Anniversary and had a big ass party and invited everyone and then the following year for the 26th year had another --- would it be the same... NO... it would be very similar to what the turnout was this year....
The money that goes to racers is up to the class and participants... Why do you think Red sponsors the race he is in and doesn't want others to compete if they may win and take home the $$$$... You to can sponsor your class and hopefully win and take home the money and etc...
It is just to bad we all can't get along and play nice, but that would be a perfect world where V6 Turbos never break parts and always win...
Be happy for the event and the opportunity to meet all those people who come to these Buick Forums....
As Dusty Bradford stated... he was able to test and tune things in One week that would have taken lots of emails, phone calls and etc AND could have taken him longer if not for the help from GS Nationals racers...
Oh yeah just cuz a vendor states they have bought and sold over 200 TR and want you to think they know what they are talking about doesn't mean they do... they are just selling their product to make money.... For instance, in a book, it is stated that all Grand Nationals/GNX's came with a sticker on the ashtry like the GNX, so... If you want to make your TR stock ORIGINAL, you need to buy the stickers to place on your ash try behind the driver seat. Only $2 set... So then I went to Rodney Sanders 87 Buick Grand National with 60 ORIGINAL Miles and asked him why he removed the sticker.. He stated NOTHING has been removed and that everything is STOCK Original... stay tune for detailed photo page of this sweet car... It is just like my GN except I used mine, meaning options and cosmetic appearance, not color or make...LOL
It has been 2 years in a row...(last year and this year) I talked to Dennis Kirban at his vendor spot and asked questions and each time and both years, he says "Buy this book and read it", oh yeah you should buy this book too... But the point is if he wants to be in the TR market, then he should take the time, after all we are the customer... I felt as if I was wasting his time and that I should just move along.... BTW if people came up to buy stuff... I waited until they left and resumed talking, but this was on Tuesday or Wednesday and not many people around... Am the only one you feels like this!
until next time, enjoy life today!
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- May 27, 2001
- Messages
- 10,866
puddinpower said:
God bless him, I hope that he is back to 100% now.
No it wouldn't dispell the rumors, and they know it. Not that they are obligated to disclose anything..But if my integrity was being questioned I would seriously consider laying the facts out. Be interesting to see what happens now that the GS Nationals is not the only show in town.
I remember a few years ago a poster on a telephone pole on the way into the track said something about "IMPLANTS" 
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
- Messages
- 7,196
There was a time...
that the "Club" bragged about their "newsletter" being free of advertisments so as not to skew its intent. I guess the propritors of the 'club' decided they could make more money by accepting the advetisments and there they are. I too used to wonder about this 'situation' and the money that was taken in. I decided it was better for me to not support this enterprise and stopped renewing and attending the GSnationals.
Gee, I miss Buicks at Bristol.
Lee Thompson said:
that the "Club" bragged about their "newsletter" being free of advertisments so as not to skew its intent. I guess the propritors of the 'club' decided they could make more money by accepting the advetisments and there they are. I too used to wonder about this 'situation' and the money that was taken in. I decided it was better for me to not support this enterprise and stopped renewing and attending the GSnationals.
Gee, I miss Buicks at Bristol.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 9,208
Lee Thompson said:
"a certificate for machine work @ a shop in Ga."
Wonder if this could be the machine shop that Richard Lassiter owns? or partially owns?
Nick Micale said:"a certificate for machine work @ a shop in Ga."
Wonder if this could be the machine shop that Richard Lassiter owns? or partially owns?
>>> Nick are you saying that Lassiter has an investment partner in that shop Lassiter owns? If so I think I know who that investor is.............it's ***.
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- May 26, 2001
- Messages
- 9,208
Buicksx2 said:
Don't know about that Rich, I was just thinking about how excited Jim Dotson is about sending his stage motor to GA. for some machine work.
Lee Thompson
New Member
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- May 24, 2001
- Messages
- 3,184
Machine work
Yes
Yes
puddinpower
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
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- 257
HRpartsNstuff
Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
- Messages
- 844
I don't get a lot of time to post on the boards like I used to, so I try to cover a LOT at one time. I am also posting this in multiple places to address several points from several people, which should help us ALL.
First, let me say I LOVE the GS CA Nat's in BG, mostly for the area, the people, and the history. Couldn't imagine life without it. But, after hearing what the payouts were (dinner Sat after the event), I was so furious Dave said I was shaking! Appauled is another description, just couldn't believe it!! Those figures are more than a slap in the face, NOT "prize" winnings. Even at double that, it would have been a dissapointment, but possibly understood with lower support/turnout... but....
Here is a list of sponsors that should have been on-board for the Nat's, posted on the GS CA website:
http://p066.ezboard.com/fbuickgsclubofamericafrm10.showMessage?topicID=125.topic
Count them, there are 34 at that time, might have been more! Now here is where the "guessing" comes in on my part, and hopefully don't create any enimies
Let's do the math best I can from my perspective:
Lets say only 1 title sponsor, maybe turbobuicks/special additions @ $1000 ea = $1000
Note: Red Armstrong (Quad Air) put in $1000 for his class, Cal Hartline put in $500 for his class, will leave both out here for easy math for OTHER class payouts.
Say 10 major sponsors (including me) @ $500 ea = $5000
Say the rest were ONLY $250 sponsors (min to be sponsor) = 21 left = $5250
Well, that's $11,250 JUST FROM SPONSORSHIP, and doesn't count ANY money from entry fees, membership dues, etc.
Now lets look at the classes in '06:
http://www.gsnationals.com/gs_nationals_2006_results.htm
I get 16 classes not counting Red's class he took care of himself. I believe Cal ADDED to his, so I counted it in here thinking it had the std payout like other classes. Well, the average class payout was something like $230-$260 (can't seem to find accurate info). Take the high number, $260, times 16 classes, and I get $4,160.
Call me crazy (or PLEASE correct me if I am wrong here), but that's about 1/3 of the sponsor money put in, which was for this SOLE purpose to provide payouts. The people doing the work are volunteers, and the other money from racer entries/etc cover the rest of expenses (and then some). Me personally, as a paying sponsor, want to know why it ALL wasn't passed onto the racers???? Triple the payouts given (like should be in this scenario), and that is what I would expect from a lower turnout year like '06. What WAS given out this year was a HUGE INSULT to us all, and I want to know where my (sponsors) money went !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see the 95%+ that was quoted in post above going out to the racers!
I also stand firm with Cal's view. I won't be putting up anything or maybe the bare minimum for sponsorship in '07, UNLESS I KNOW IT ALL WILL GO DIRECTLY TO THE RACERS! At other events like BPG & Indy & probably many other smaller ones, the prize money is set BEFORE any sponsors get on board. Comparing the Nats to the BPG (since been around a couple years now), the BPG is maybe 1/4 the size of the nats, and paid out like $14,000 in prize monies with very little sponsorship, and the event STILL MADE MONEY! So, if less sponsors & people participate in '07, the payouts will get even lower?? Even though it's still a bigger event (by far) than the other events out there?? Doesn't sound remotely fair to me. Cal's input was, like others here, trying to HELP. His "copy" of last years list just shows that in looking for MORE sponsorship, the ones from previous year weren't all contacted or involved this year, let alone more or new ones.
This is where the "NOT for profit" clubs shine for racers/members, and the "FOR profit" clubs don't do as much for the racers/members. That's the way it is, unless some of the richer racers/members want to get together & purchase the club from it's present owners, or start their own club like BPG or Indy. Then it IS harder to get sponsors like us to give up money for ALL the events. We DO support all we can with ALL the events we can, but it is tighter & harder to do with so many. Still, glad people take the effort to start up new clubs/events & will support them because they give back to the racers/members more.
Also, couple things that contributed to this years lower payouts etc that were overlooked.
Rick Jegl took over for John Chamberlain with Sponsor issues. He did OK, but being his first year, he did miss a LOT of people & companies that could have helped. Look at bigger events like the PRO fastest street car series. They get BIG names like Edelbrock, NOS, etc, and seen others like Pepsi, insurance companies, etc. We SURE DON'T have to rely on us "little" companies to support the events! The big guys can toss out a couple grand like cookie crumbs for good exposure. They pay for spots in the programs, be on announcements, be on banners, etc. There is a TON being left on the table when you look at the big picture IMO. Can only get better from here!
Also, in the past, I was kinda working with John Chamberlain (great guy!) on his idea of combining the 5 bracket classes to say 3. There aren't too many cars filling up the lanes like the old days, so it shouldn't be a problem & might even help logistically. This would provide higher payouts for the 3, vs spreading it over the 5 now. Of course if they are just deleted to make the money divided into 14 classes instead of 16 classes, then it will be for nothing. The payouts shouldn't be even anyway! Why would brkt 5 pay same as quick 16? What motivation would people have to run an expensive fast car, vs their 15 sec daily driver??? Not right for any event. If x dollars goes to 5 brkt classes, then split x dollars between 3 brt classes, then it's a good thing IMO. That & many other ideas not being used to help the event out is probably why John is doing Indy now instead of the Nat's. He is ALL FOR the racers/members.
Indy (and other) events ask for racers help for sponsor ideas/dollars, cause it helps YOU, the racer! It's like networking, you may know a local business or BIG business than can chip-in to help & get advertising benefit from it. Only makes sense to ask & hope people do a little effort to help (themselves) out. Yes, it's not your "job" to do that, but people doing it for the events are volunteers, and it's not really their job either! Doesn't take a lot of effort per person, and if a few do a little, it would payoff huge! The Nat's should NEVER have to go to min car fields for payouts, unless some of the entry fees go to the payouts (which should be EASY to do). There could easily be $1000's per class & still make tons of money counting entry fees etc IMO, do the math. If BPG can do 14k at their size, guessing the Nat's could give out $40k & still make money! $4-5k is an insult, and a LOT of us are feelin it
I am probably madder about all this than anyone, and haven't seen any numbers to show me differently. I'm sure it will all come to pass & get sorted out. Maybe it's just a clerical error, and checks for the balance can be sent out to the winners & RU's ??? Either way, it should be better in '07 with either the help from racers, new sponsor coordinater having more time to get it together, sponsors taking matters into their own hands to fix, and/or closer view of the numbers. I'm sure people will start to choose between the BPG, Indy, and Nat's (& other events) since we all can't go to them all. There should be enough to go around, and people will pick & choose for many reasons. Hope to keep seeing everyone at as many as possible.
PS- On a lighter (kinda) note, I met Tom Smith & his boys (blue dump truck & TR) at the Nat's too. He was having trouble with the car going straight & sounded unsafe to me. He got a swaybar from us to correct it, and I helped make sure they installed it (in a hurry) at the track to get running again. He came back & said it was still all over the place & wouldn't go straight. Went over & looked at what he had going, and found the previous owner put the south side lowers on it, and the brackets were bolted in place WAY off from each other. That put the rear sideways in the car, and it would never go straight or safe likt that. Also, his uppers were stock with dry-rotted stock bushings. Not good enough for the low 11's high 10's. He then got the rest of our kit, adj uppers & new lowers. I helped a little when they put that stuff on & checked pinion angle & stuff. Next pass, straight as an arrow, safe, and faster! That & all the other great comments we received there is what makes it all worth while for us. It is a HUGE expense for sponsors/vendors to make the trip and not be at the shop making parts or shipping stuff. Just ask the ones that didn't come!
When I heard his dad passed away & they would be leaving soon, I felt terrible. He was just so glad we got the car sorted out so fast & they could finally enjoy it. Made their short trip to the nat's a good (and well worth) one. God Bless Tom & family during this hardship.
PS- Seen a LOT of cars in the finals (in MANY classes) with our Swaybar/susp parts! Congrats to ALL! If you got any pics & info, GET THEM TO US !!!!!! We will be printing an updated catalog soon, and adding stuff to our new site all the time! Would like to include you too!
First, let me say I LOVE the GS CA Nat's in BG, mostly for the area, the people, and the history. Couldn't imagine life without it. But, after hearing what the payouts were (dinner Sat after the event), I was so furious Dave said I was shaking! Appauled is another description, just couldn't believe it!! Those figures are more than a slap in the face, NOT "prize" winnings. Even at double that, it would have been a dissapointment, but possibly understood with lower support/turnout... but....
Here is a list of sponsors that should have been on-board for the Nat's, posted on the GS CA website:
http://p066.ezboard.com/fbuickgsclubofamericafrm10.showMessage?topicID=125.topic
Count them, there are 34 at that time, might have been more! Now here is where the "guessing" comes in on my part, and hopefully don't create any enimies
Let's do the math best I can from my perspective:Lets say only 1 title sponsor, maybe turbobuicks/special additions @ $1000 ea = $1000
Note: Red Armstrong (Quad Air) put in $1000 for his class, Cal Hartline put in $500 for his class, will leave both out here for easy math for OTHER class payouts.
Say 10 major sponsors (including me) @ $500 ea = $5000
Say the rest were ONLY $250 sponsors (min to be sponsor) = 21 left = $5250
Well, that's $11,250 JUST FROM SPONSORSHIP, and doesn't count ANY money from entry fees, membership dues, etc.
Now lets look at the classes in '06:
http://www.gsnationals.com/gs_nationals_2006_results.htm
I get 16 classes not counting Red's class he took care of himself. I believe Cal ADDED to his, so I counted it in here thinking it had the std payout like other classes. Well, the average class payout was something like $230-$260 (can't seem to find accurate info). Take the high number, $260, times 16 classes, and I get $4,160.
Call me crazy (or PLEASE correct me if I am wrong here), but that's about 1/3 of the sponsor money put in, which was for this SOLE purpose to provide payouts. The people doing the work are volunteers, and the other money from racer entries/etc cover the rest of expenses (and then some). Me personally, as a paying sponsor, want to know why it ALL wasn't passed onto the racers???? Triple the payouts given (like should be in this scenario), and that is what I would expect from a lower turnout year like '06. What WAS given out this year was a HUGE INSULT to us all, and I want to know where my (sponsors) money went !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't see the 95%+ that was quoted in post above going out to the racers!
I also stand firm with Cal's view. I won't be putting up anything or maybe the bare minimum for sponsorship in '07, UNLESS I KNOW IT ALL WILL GO DIRECTLY TO THE RACERS! At other events like BPG & Indy & probably many other smaller ones, the prize money is set BEFORE any sponsors get on board. Comparing the Nats to the BPG (since been around a couple years now), the BPG is maybe 1/4 the size of the nats, and paid out like $14,000 in prize monies with very little sponsorship, and the event STILL MADE MONEY! So, if less sponsors & people participate in '07, the payouts will get even lower?? Even though it's still a bigger event (by far) than the other events out there?? Doesn't sound remotely fair to me. Cal's input was, like others here, trying to HELP. His "copy" of last years list just shows that in looking for MORE sponsorship, the ones from previous year weren't all contacted or involved this year, let alone more or new ones.
This is where the "NOT for profit" clubs shine for racers/members, and the "FOR profit" clubs don't do as much for the racers/members. That's the way it is, unless some of the richer racers/members want to get together & purchase the club from it's present owners, or start their own club like BPG or Indy. Then it IS harder to get sponsors like us to give up money for ALL the events. We DO support all we can with ALL the events we can, but it is tighter & harder to do with so many. Still, glad people take the effort to start up new clubs/events & will support them because they give back to the racers/members more.
Also, couple things that contributed to this years lower payouts etc that were overlooked.
Rick Jegl took over for John Chamberlain with Sponsor issues. He did OK, but being his first year, he did miss a LOT of people & companies that could have helped. Look at bigger events like the PRO fastest street car series. They get BIG names like Edelbrock, NOS, etc, and seen others like Pepsi, insurance companies, etc. We SURE DON'T have to rely on us "little" companies to support the events! The big guys can toss out a couple grand like cookie crumbs for good exposure. They pay for spots in the programs, be on announcements, be on banners, etc. There is a TON being left on the table when you look at the big picture IMO. Can only get better from here!
Also, in the past, I was kinda working with John Chamberlain (great guy!) on his idea of combining the 5 bracket classes to say 3. There aren't too many cars filling up the lanes like the old days, so it shouldn't be a problem & might even help logistically. This would provide higher payouts for the 3, vs spreading it over the 5 now. Of course if they are just deleted to make the money divided into 14 classes instead of 16 classes, then it will be for nothing. The payouts shouldn't be even anyway! Why would brkt 5 pay same as quick 16? What motivation would people have to run an expensive fast car, vs their 15 sec daily driver??? Not right for any event. If x dollars goes to 5 brkt classes, then split x dollars between 3 brt classes, then it's a good thing IMO. That & many other ideas not being used to help the event out is probably why John is doing Indy now instead of the Nat's. He is ALL FOR the racers/members.
Indy (and other) events ask for racers help for sponsor ideas/dollars, cause it helps YOU, the racer! It's like networking, you may know a local business or BIG business than can chip-in to help & get advertising benefit from it. Only makes sense to ask & hope people do a little effort to help (themselves) out. Yes, it's not your "job" to do that, but people doing it for the events are volunteers, and it's not really their job either! Doesn't take a lot of effort per person, and if a few do a little, it would payoff huge! The Nat's should NEVER have to go to min car fields for payouts, unless some of the entry fees go to the payouts (which should be EASY to do). There could easily be $1000's per class & still make tons of money counting entry fees etc IMO, do the math. If BPG can do 14k at their size, guessing the Nat's could give out $40k & still make money! $4-5k is an insult, and a LOT of us are feelin it
I am probably madder about all this than anyone, and haven't seen any numbers to show me differently. I'm sure it will all come to pass & get sorted out. Maybe it's just a clerical error, and checks for the balance can be sent out to the winners & RU's ??? Either way, it should be better in '07 with either the help from racers, new sponsor coordinater having more time to get it together, sponsors taking matters into their own hands to fix, and/or closer view of the numbers. I'm sure people will start to choose between the BPG, Indy, and Nat's (& other events) since we all can't go to them all. There should be enough to go around, and people will pick & choose for many reasons. Hope to keep seeing everyone at as many as possible.
PS- On a lighter (kinda) note, I met Tom Smith & his boys (blue dump truck & TR) at the Nat's too. He was having trouble with the car going straight & sounded unsafe to me. He got a swaybar from us to correct it, and I helped make sure they installed it (in a hurry) at the track to get running again. He came back & said it was still all over the place & wouldn't go straight. Went over & looked at what he had going, and found the previous owner put the south side lowers on it, and the brackets were bolted in place WAY off from each other. That put the rear sideways in the car, and it would never go straight or safe likt that. Also, his uppers were stock with dry-rotted stock bushings. Not good enough for the low 11's high 10's. He then got the rest of our kit, adj uppers & new lowers. I helped a little when they put that stuff on & checked pinion angle & stuff. Next pass, straight as an arrow, safe, and faster! That & all the other great comments we received there is what makes it all worth while for us. It is a HUGE expense for sponsors/vendors to make the trip and not be at the shop making parts or shipping stuff. Just ask the ones that didn't come!
When I heard his dad passed away & they would be leaving soon, I felt terrible. He was just so glad we got the car sorted out so fast & they could finally enjoy it. Made their short trip to the nat's a good (and well worth) one. God Bless Tom & family during this hardship.
PS- Seen a LOT of cars in the finals (in MANY classes) with our Swaybar/susp parts! Congrats to ALL! If you got any pics & info, GET THEM TO US !!!!!! We will be printing an updated catalog soon, and adding stuff to our new site all the time! Would like to include you too!
