Possible filter problem

[hotrodjunky1982]

I Drove her after sitting for 3 weeks. Half mile down the road, she stumbles and quits. I barely limp it into a parking lot(after 15 aggonizing minutes) had it towed to my shop and I got a new fuel filter. I assume its really old, maybe original(29k mile car) Here are the facts: driven 2000 miles since I got it in feb. I drove it 200 miles to work and back prior to parking it 3 weeks ago. Filled up with gas 10 miles before I got home.(tank was pretty empty). Im hoping all the crud finally shook loose, and clogged the filter. It turns over and starts for a minute, then stalls. Any help greatly appreciated

 

[charlief1]

Sounds like it's time for a new fuel pump and cleaning the tank out. Sorry.

 

[youngstr]

is it an all original car? as in you don't have a fuel pressure guage attached to the fuel rail? have you tried grounding the green wire that is on the driverside fender well its mixed in the the wiring for ur powermaster, that green wire that has a plug end on it but is not hooked to anything is the fuel pump prime. if you ground it the fuel pump should spin up and put pressure to the fuel rail, have u tested this to rule out the fuel pump? also if u have a guage for the fuel rail make sure u have the proper key on pressure. I'd personally drop the tank and dump it for good measure, and when u have it out check the sock on the fuel pump for clogging. Has the service engine soon light come on?

 

[hotrodjunky1982]

All 1985 original, except tires, and filters. Even has the plastic still on the dash panels. Im pretty sure the pump is good. It ran fine until I sat on a hill in traffic for 5 or 10 min. No check engine light. I have a new filter already. Before I got the car in feb. It had been driven less than 1000 miles since 1994. Ive put 2k on the clock since feb, without a hitch. That is, until now. Jeez, in the last 2 weeks ive had the whole exhaust on my caprice coupe rip off (on a milling/repave bump) at the cat, my truck was viciously keyed with a knife(disgruntled scumbag employee) to the point of needing a full repaint, and now this. At least my camaro is intact.

 

[hotrodjunky1982]

Oh yeah...almost forgot the pump is located where?

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Oh yeah...almost forgot the pump is located where?

In the gas tank. Brad

 

[standupjskiguy]

My wife's 85 t-type, the pump went bad at 33,000 miles. Being the curious type, I took it apart. I found they used steel on steel spline into a steel impeller.
So the splines wore off and it was not able to develop enough pressure. Fortunately it happened close to home. She was able to limp home though.
The pump still made some pressure but it was low.
At 66,000 miles, I replaced the pump again. I took the the old one apart and discovered GM changed the design to steel into plastic which lasts a long time.
Based on my experience, change the pump, even if it is good, if it is original, it's bound to go soon because you are at 29,000 miles.
The problem is if you have any more than a few gallons in the tank it's a problem.

 

[hotrodjunky1982]

When I turn the key, I hear the pump for a cpl seconds. (at least I think its the pump I hear) the sound comes from the rear of the car, thats why I assume its the pump. Car turns over every time, starts anf stalls within 3 seconds

 

[standupjskiguy]

You are going to have to do some diagnostics.
Got a timing light? Clamp it on and see if you still have spark when and while the engine is dieing.
If not, you probably need a new ignition module. When my daughter's Beretta's ignition module died it just died no running for a few seconds.
But when my boats module died, it would run for a few seconds after starting and then die.
Do you have anyway to check the fuel pressure? If not, can you have some one spray some starting fluid into the intake while it
is running to see if it will run longer. If it does, you have a fuel pump problem.
The fuel pump is a multistage as I recall. Each stage boosts pressure. If one stage isn't working, you still get some pressure but not enough
to sustain the engine. So maybe when you turn the key, it squirts some fuel into the intake as you crank, then the engine fires,
the engine uses up the fuel and dies because the pump cannot sustain running the engine.

 

[hotrodjunky1982]

Two thumbs up for that answer!!

 

[Jerryl]

......... The fuel pump is a multistage as I recall. Each stage boosts pressure. If one stage isn't working, you still get some pressure but not enough to sustain the engine. So maybe when you turn the key, it squirts some fuel into the intake as you crank, then the engine fires, the engine uses up the fuel and dies because the pump cannot sustain running the engine.

Well . . . . Not sure what a "multistage fuel pump" really is but these cars do not have a multi stage fuel pump.
Now, it you are talking about a dual pump set-up, than it is somewhat ........... accurate.
In a dual pump set-up, the second fuel pump comes on at a given boost level, but this set-up typically still use single stage pumps.

With these cars (single or dual pump) with stock type and 99.99% of aftermarket set-ups . . . . As boost rises, the air pressure pushes against the diaphragm in the FPR, which in turn raises fuel pressure 1:1.
The pump has to work harder to overcome the pressure to volume drops . . . but the pump only has one stage . . . . I take that back . . . . actually two; On and off
As far as fuel starvation . . . . much easier to press the alky button to make that determination.

 

[standupjskiguy]

Ever take apart a well pump? That's an example of a multistage pump. It has multiple impellers stages stacked on on top the other. It can create a lot more pressure than a sump pump? A sump pump is single stage, I.E., one impeller which spins to create centrifugal force which throws the water out at a given pressure but that pressure is low, my guess would be 20 psi or so. In a multistage pump, there is more than one impeller, the first produces the first 20 psi, it discharges into the second stage impeller to boost pressure on top of the pressure created by the first stage. So if the splines on the second impeller were stripped and it didn't spin, you'd only get the first 20 psi from the first stage and no boost added by the second stage. In my wife's car I remember she had low fuel pressure. Being new to fuel injection, I didn't know 18 psi was too low. We had the car towed to a shop and they changed the fuel pump. When I got it back with the old part, I took it apart to see what failed. It was along time ago that this happened but that is my memory of what happened and what I found. I'm not making stuff up, I'm trying to help.
I didn't know he had alky but I guess that would be easier than spraying starting fluid into the intake.

 

[Jerryl]

............ I'm not making stuff up, I'm trying to help.
I didn't know he had alky but I guess that would be easier than spraying starting fluid into the intake.

Thanks for the explanation. Please don't take my post the wrong way. It was not a personal attack or intended to make you look bad. We are all here for the same reason.
Don't think he has alky . . . . just saying that to get him to think about it. LOL

One thing is for sure . . . untill you verify, you can't confirm.
Here is a cutaway of a typical fuel pump. Take it easy. . . . . . .

 

[standupjskiguy]

"untill you verify, you can't confirm."
Your right so if I can't get every detail perfect, so as to be at the level of your obvious superior intelligence, I should stay off the board so as not to confuse anyone with my
42 years of bogus shade-tree experience.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

"untill you verify, you can't confirm."
Your right so if I can't get every detail perfect, so as to be at the level of your obvious superior intelligence, I should stay off the board so as not to confuse anyone with my
42 years of bogus shade-tree experience.

I would not take it personally and continue to post. I have been corrected many times before. This is how I learn more about these cars. Brad

 

[Jerryl]

"untill you verify, you can't confirm."
Your right so if I can't get every detail perfect, so as to be at the level of your obvious superior intelligence, I should stay off the board so as not to confuse anyone with my 42 years of bogus shade-tree experience.

Man, don't take it personal! . . . . . I have no superior intelligence, NONE!
I was merely pointing out what I believe to be factual based on specific experiences with these cars . . . .

Over the years, (like everywhere else), there have been lots of misinformation posted on the boards, and ALL I want to do is make sure is that the next person get the correct info.
Heck we have people (typically newbs) spreading misinformation that if you want 12’s you must convert to the IC’d set-up because it is easier and cheaper. . . . . . you get my drift?

And the "untill you verify, you can't confirm" comment was in agreement with you!
It was meant for the original poster . . . . who needs to verify spark, FP, etc.

 

[standupjskiguy]

a two stage pump that looks like ours
http://www.google.com/patents/US4209284?printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[standupjskiguy]

I'm reminded of this topic.
I replaced the working pump, as a precaution, in my 1994, 174k mile, GM mini van .
Here are pics of the two impellers making up a two stage pump similar to the stock pumps in our turbo Regals.
One photo uses a mirror to see the second impeller in it's housing in the back, while the first is visible in the foreground.
The other shows both impellers side by side with one having more wear in the center hole than the other.
When my wife's pump failed at 33k, one impeller center hole was worn round so that impeller was not being driven.
Therefore the pump had low pressure .