Pump gas timing map for Holley?

[kwiktsi]

My car has a Holley HP that was installed and tuned by the previous owner. I was wondering if anybody had a pump gas timing map that I can compare to mine to make sure it is "right". I can get the idle and all the wot stuff dialed in easily enough but I want to compare the "in between". Thanks.
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

Double post..

 

[turbo nasty]

Alky injection?

 

[kwiktsi]

Alky injection?

Not yet, but will be installed shortly. I'll take an alky map as well for comparison, part throttle and such should all be the same and I'll still get an idea where boost timing would be. I just want to verify this map that's in it. Thanks!
Joe

 

[The Granny]

Not yet, but will be installed shortly. I'll take an alky map as well for comparison, part throttle and such should all be the same and I'll still get an idea where boost timing would be. I just want to verify this map that's in it. Thanks!
Joe

I just recently got my car fired up on an XFI system from Cal, he put base tune on there for alky injection. so far driving it has been very smooth, but then again I've only been cruising the car. no where near WOT yet (still breaking in the new motor) I could send you the timing map I have on there tonight when I get back home if you're interested


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[kwiktsi]

I just recently got my car fired up on an XFI system from Cal, he put base tune on there for alky injection. so far driving it has been very smooth, but then again I've only been cruising the car. no where near WOT yet (still breaking in the new motor) I could send you the timing map I have on there tonight when I get back home if you're interested


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Sure, that would be appreciated! Mine feels and runs pretty well and the map "looks" ok to me but I'm not familiar with what these like for cruise timing and such, so something to compare to would be great. Thanks!

 

[The Granny]

Sure, that would be appreciated! Mine feels and runs pretty well and the map "looks" ok to me but I'm not familiar with what these like for cruise timing and such, so something to compare to would be great. Thanks!

Combo for the most part is in my sig, I also have a 218/212 hyd. roller cam. Can't remember what other info I sent to Cal when he made this base tune, but if you got any questions about my set up don't hesitate to ask! Also just a tip, Cal is the man when it comes to tuning IMO.... him and Brian (Bison) are the two guys you should call if you have any questions about your setup and tuning it

 

[kwiktsi]

Combo for the most part is in my sig, I also have a 218/212 hyd. roller cam. Can't remember what other info I sent to Cal when he made this base tune, but if you got any questions about my set up don't hesitate to ask! Also just a tip, Cal is the man when it comes to tuning IMO.... him and Brian (Bison) are the two guys you should call if you have any questions about your setup and tuning it

Thank you very much, it appears that they are similar with the exception of me running less up top due to no alky. Glad to see that they at least got the timing map right on this thing lol. As for Cal, I had called them about tuning the car and getting a basemap emailed to make the drive to him with and they never returned my call . I've got it so close now that I don't think I'll bother at this point, just have some cleaning up to do here and there. I just have some idle issues that are driving me insane that I can't seem to lick. I'm starting to think it may be mechanical and not the tune. That's a whole 'nother post though lol.

 

[The Granny]

Thank you very much, it appears that they are similar with the exception of me running less up top due to no alky. Glad to see that they at least got the timing map right on this thing lol. As for Cal, I had called them about tuning the car and getting a basemap emailed to make the drive to him with and they never returned my call . I've got it so close now that I don't think I'll bother at this point, just have some cleaning up to do here and there. I just have some idle issues that are driving me insane that I can't seem to lick. I'm starting to think it may be mechanical and not the tune. That's a whole 'nother post though lol.

No problem, glad I could help! When I first fired up my car with the new motor and XFI him and I had about a 45 minute conversation about tuning it. What I remember is it actually idled really smooth right off the bat, so you're right it may be a mechanical issue. I had a small idling issue that Cal diagnosed over the phone as a vacuum leak, the rest of the idling had to deal with some of the operational/ignition parameters, injector opening vs battery voltage, and the VE table. Once we verified timing with a timing light that was it for the idling. If you know you're good in those areas then my best guess would be something mechanical like you're saying


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[kwiktsi]

No problem, glad I could help! When I first fired up my car with the new motor and XFI him and I had about a 45 minute conversation about tuning it. What I remember is it actually idled really smooth right off the bat, so you're right it may be a mechanical issue. I had a small idling issue that Cal diagnosed over the phone as a vacuum leak, the rest of the idling had to deal with some of the operational/ignition parameters, injector opening vs battery voltage, and the VE table. Once we verified timing with a timing light that was it for the idling. If you know you're good in those areas then my best guess would be something mechanical like you're saying


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Do you know what your idle AFR is? Mine definitely runs smoother with more fuel but still doesn't seem right. I had my injectors cleaned and they're good, new motor with TRW/speed pro pistons, Champion ported heads and 206 roller. I was almost wondering if the lash was too tight, but with the tools I have at my disposal here, it appears that I'm only running around .030 on Morel rollers, so I don't think it's hanging the valves. Who knows.

 

[The Granny]

Do you know what your idle AFR is? Mine definitely runs smoother with more fuel but still doesn't seem right. I had my injectors cleaned and they're good, new motor with TRW/speed pro pistons, Champion ported heads and 206 roller. I was almost wondering if the lash was too tight, but with the tools I have at my disposal here, it appears that I'm only running around .030 on Morel rollers, so I don't think it's hanging the valves. Who knows.

12.8-13.0 is what I've got

 

[kwiktsi]

12.8-13.0 is what I've got

I'm reading some here and wondering if I'm just trying to idle it too lean. I was shooting for 14.5 and it was terrible, ran it to 13.8 and it was much better but not right. I found an intake leak causing it to suck oil in, fixed that and the idle got much better, even back up at 14.5. I was happy that it was "fixed" but once the excitement wore off, I noticed it still wasn't right. I haven't tried running it that rich at idle. I'm going to mess around with it some tomorrow. I just saved a test tune with a 12.7 idle AFR just to see what happens. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for your help!

 

[The Granny]

I'm reading some here and wondering if I'm just trying to idle it too lean. I was shooting for 14.5 and it was terrible, ran it to 13.8 and it was much better but not right. I found an intake leak causing it to suck oil in, fixed that and the idle got much better, even back up at 14.5. I was happy that it was "fixed" but once the excitement wore off, I noticed it still wasn't right. I haven't tried running it that rich at idle. I'm going to mess around with it some tomorrow. I just saved a test tune with a 12.7 idle AFR just to see what happens. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for your help!

Sounds like you've got it going in the right direction! Knock out all the variables that could cause it to not run smooth and make sure everything is right under the hood before you go diving too much into the tune and looking for an answer there. Pack your laptop with you and make changes live to the AFR and see what it likes. I'd mess with the Injector Opening Offset vs Battery Voltage curve too. Highlight the whole curve and move it up or down slightly and see what your motor likes if you haven't already tried it. I'm no expert by any means, I'm just speaking from the experience I have. Make sure the fuel calculation parameters are correct too


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[kwiktsi]

Sounds like you've got it going in the right direction! Knock out all the variables that could cause it to not run smooth and make sure everything is right under the hood before you go diving too much into the tune and looking for an answer there. Pack your laptop with you and make changes live to the AFR and see what it likes. I'd mess with the Injector Opening Offset vs Battery Voltage curve too. Highlight the whole curve and move it up or down slightly and see what your motor likes if you haven't already tried it. I'm no expert by any means, I'm just speaking from the experience I have. Make sure the fuel calculation parameters are correct too


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Thanks for the tips. I'll mess around with it more tomorrow and see. Only thing about it possibly being mechanical is that is no matter how it is idling, I blip the throttle and it is nice and crisp, no stumbles, cylinder loss, etc.- which probably wouldn't be the case if it was a mechanical issue. Has had me stumped for a while now. Had me wondering if I had put the cam in a tooth off, mis-measured the push rods, etc.- all of which I have NEVER done before with the maybe 50 motors I've built but keep torturing myself with the "there is a first time for everything" thought lol.

 

[The Granny]

Thanks for the tips. I'll mess around with it more tomorrow and see. Only thing about it possibly being mechanical is that is no matter how it is idling, I blip the throttle and it is nice and crisp, no stumbles, cylinder loss, etc.- which probably wouldn't be the case if it was a mechanical issue. Has had me stumped for a while now. Had me wondering if I had put the cam in a tooth off, mis-measured the push rods, etc.- all of which I have NEVER done before with the maybe 50 motors I've built but keep torturing myself with the "there is a first time for everything" thought lol.

No problem! Since you're in Florida if you're close to Cal you may want to see if he can take a look over your car and the tune at the same time, if you can get a hold of him [emoji23]


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[Boost231]

Combo for the most part is in my sig, I also have a 218/212 hyd. roller cam. Can't remember what other info I sent to Cal when he made this base tune, but if you got any questions about my set up don't hesitate to ask! Also just a tip, Cal is the man when it comes to tuning IMO.... him and Brian (Bison) are the two guys you should call if you have any questions about your setup and tuning it

Not cool IMOP to post your tuners timing map... I'm sure Cal and other tuners would agree.

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[ITSAV6]

Does the Holley EFI run speed density? It does have the self learning right? Hopefully a base timing map isn't top secret, the good stuff is when he gets that extra 200hp

 

[texasmr2]

Love the title.

 

[turbo nasty]

I'm reading some here and wondering if I'm just trying to idle it too lean. I was shooting for 14.5 and it was terrible, ran it to 13.8 and it was much better but not right. I found an intake leak causing it to suck oil in, fixed that and the idle got much better, even back up at 14.5. I was happy that it was "fixed" but once the excitement wore off, I noticed it still wasn't right. I haven't tried running it that rich at idle. I'm going to mess around with it some tomorrow. I just saved a test tune with a 12.7 idle AFR just to see what happens. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for your help!

Shoot for high 12's to13.0 Target AFR at idle for starters. Also verify your timing is correct with a light. Once done try 30 for idle timing. If you make a fuel change to one cell all others are affected around it so try not to have...for example 24 in the cell that the cursor is populating and the one to the left at 5 then 80 above it, etc Blending and smoothing is key. Use your 3d view to see dips and bumps. Save your tunes and name them for a easy way to remember and play around and if it gets jacked up while your learning flash back in the other tune.

 

[kwiktsi]

Shoot for high 12's to13.0 Target AFR at idle for starters. Also verify your timing is correct with a light. Once done try 30 for idle timing. If you make a fuel change to one cell all others are affected around it so try not to have...for example 24 in the cell that the cursor is populating and the one to the left at 5 then 80 above it, etc Blending and smoothing is key. Use your 3d view to see dips and bumps. Save your tunes and name them for a easy way to remember and play around and if it gets jacked up while your learning flash back in the other tune.

Thanks for the advice. While this isn't my first rodeo with tuning, it is my first time using a holley and first turbo regal I've tuned. Most of my experience is all HP Tuners and LS stuff. That said, this one has been kicking my butt with the idle. All else is perfect, cruise, wot acceleration, hot/cold start, etc. Just can't shake this rough idle.

One thing I have noticed in the past and then again today is that more timing makes it WORSE. If you've ever messed with a distributor and advanced it until it is running rough- that's what it does. just random stumbles and such. It idles smoothest about 12-15 degrees, which has me stumped. I did mess with it some this morning and at 13.0 afr and 15 degrees, it idles much smoother than ever but smells quite a bit richer (obviously). Another thing that has me stumped is it likes a lower idle rpm too- idles better at 675 than 875.. I currently have it at 725 and it's pretty good. As I had said above though, no matter how good or bad the idle is at the time, the throttle response is crisp so it's not like it's loaded up or anything. This idle has been kicking my butt for months.

Really leaning towards it being something mechanical but as crisp as the throttle response is, I don't know what it could possibly be. Timing has been verified with a light on the stock balancer and my ignition settings (ref angle and such) are the same as as another car which is known to run fine.