Pump problems

[Steve V]

I maybe in need of some bigger boost valves,a new PR spring,and new pump slide springs. I am having some issues with my pump.

I used the sonnax O ring .500 and .283 reverse boost valves. My pump is making a noise that sounds like rocks in Rev,2nd,1st. I also noticed a flare in 2nd as it comes past 12-14 psi. I had a regular .500,.296 rev boost in it before. It was working fine before,should've left it alone.

This last build I went with a billet drum,dual feed. Other than that It was just new clutches/band/low rev sprag.

My pressures are
Min Max
P 80 200-220
R125-100 bounces badly 175-225
N 80 200-220
D 80 205-215
3 80 205-215
2 175-195 NO Change @max
1 160-185 pulses and dips to 125 intermitantly

Pump is not scored,10 vein with new rings veins on the last build 5k ago. Everything was wet sanded flat and deburred.

Not sure where I went wrong..LOL...I am determined to beat this thing

 

[David Husek]

Give me a call, PM Sent

 

[Steve V]

Tonites update

Removed the sonnax junk..installed a regular .500/.296 valves.

pressures are:

max min
P 75 225-240
R 115 230-240
N 75 220-240
D 75 225-235
3 75 225-230
2 215 NO change and pump is noisey,but a different noise
1 same as above.....

The orginal noise is gone

Went for a test drive with guage hooked up noticed shortly after 1-2 shift pump pressure dumps to line pressure base-about 75-80. Great. Did not feel as flare but this is not good. I installed the 1 peice gov rings on the servo pin. I am wondering if I size the the same size as the pin and I have pressure leak there? I think tommorrow I will remove the servo and swap the rings for the stock ones and see if that helps

Stay tuned...

 

[Steve V]

Not a isolated 2nd gear issue

Just got to work...pressure does fall in gears other than 2nd. It appears that when you step on it the pump will go to about 200 then fall on it's face to about 80. One time when I left the light it went up to 100 then drop to 50 then up to 125. I am gonna have to pull the pump.

It also made that same noise this AM when I backed out of the garage. Fluid level is full,new filer(no debris in pan clogging it up). 700 R4 set up on an Art Carr pan. So I am not thinking it's a pick up problem. Although it does act like cavitation at times.

 

[chris718]

Steve,do pressure test in manual 2 and see what happens before ,during and after a 1/2 shift.

 

[Steve V]

Trans is out..

Held in man 2 press goes to about 200 then with no pattern will drop as low as 50-70 psi before 1-2,after 1-2 or while cruising in 2nd. Pump makes the rock sound at the sametime. I pulled it and will open it up soon.:frown:

 

[Steve V]

Pump slide is dragging the pump body. Not sure why this would happen as it is the OEM slide and pump body. I will take a pic of it at home and post tonite.

 

[bison]

Pump slide is dragging the pump body. Not sure why this would happen as it is the OEM slide and pump body. I will take a pic of it at home and post tonite.

What was the initial clearance when it was set up? The pump was bought as a new assembly?

 

[chris718]

Steve if you overtorque the pump halves you can create drag on the slide and rotor.Assemble the slide without the slide springs ,pivot pin,and rotor.Then shakke the pump and see if the slide moves.There is also a hole that you can go thru and move the slide with apick when performing this test.REV AND LO boost create extra load on the slide and rotor because before the pr valve and spring can open more pressure must build on the push side of the pump that supplies the regulator valve feed oil.I think you have a sticking reg valve or loss in tv boost signal to the tv boost valve in the pump.

 

[Steve V]

Pics..

Here's my pics... the bottom 2 pics,there are no grooves on the pocket or where rotor slide sits or where they ride on the pump itself.

 

[chris718]

Doesnt look bad.The mark on the slide is almost always in that area because of the slide springs pushing on the slide. did you do my test?

 

[Steve V]

I think you have a sticking reg valve or loss in tv boost signal to the tv boost valve in the pump.[/QUOTE]

Chris how can I check for a loss in TV signal? I am starting over with a fresh pump completely.

Bison..this is something that I created. This pump had over 5k on it then I opend the unit and freshened it and this started. I reused everything..rotor,slide,veins,rings,bushing...I changed the gaskets and seal only. This pump went 5k with no issues and looked bueatiful when I opened it to inspect.

 

[Steve V]

Held in man 2 press goes to about 200 then with no pattern will drop as low as 50-70 psi before 1-2,after 1-2 or while cruising in 2nd. Pump makes the rock sound at the sametime. I pulled it and will open it up soon.:frown:

Chris here's the results of your test.:smile:

 

[Steve V]

Doesnt look bad.The mark on the slide is almost always in that area because of the slide springs pushing on the slide. did you do my test?

Those marks where not present when I took it apart the prior two times.

 

[Steve V]

Solution

The fix was to replace the pump slide spring. At the advice of a well known 200 builder I used the Hi rev kit with a stiffer spring. I used a different pump body just for peice of mind. Same boost valves. No more noise in reverse and pump psi is steady with throttle.

I am sooo glad it's fixed.

 

[chris718]

I doubt the spring caused the problem.I would lean more towards a bad pump body.It is good to see you got it working.

 

[bison]

I doubt the spring caused the problem.I would lean more towards a bad pump body.It is good to see you got it working.

+1. I use high rev kits in almost all these i do. Some have been behind engines that rev to 7500rpm.

 

[Steve V]

I doubt the spring caused the problem.I would lean more towards a bad pump body.It is good to see you got it working.

Ok,Chris. I talked to one of your competitors and he was very helpful and when I described what the pressures did he told me pump slide spring. Since the noise/pressure fluctuation was not present before the build and was after. Not sure how a pump body goes bad on the bench? It was not over torqued or tightened unevenly either.I am gonna put that pump body back into service on another unit and see what happens.

 

[chris718]

The thing is even if you block the slide closed the pump will still build pressure,and maximum line over 200 with the boost valve you are using.Based on your numbers you posted the problem is definately not the slide spring malfunctioning,but maybe a problem in decrease oil acting on the slide to control it s positioning based on transmission demand.If the problem wasnt there before the build it is something you built into it.If in fact I am overlooking something present the data and reasoning so I can review it.

 

[Steve V]

If the problem wasnt there before the build it is something you built into it.

My point exactly. And the only 2 items that were changed were the boost valves. I changed them back and noise persisted. I just happened to catch the pressure fluctuation by dumb luck.

Maybe I had a gasket that moved a little bit or something like that..I doubt I will ever know exactly. Only changes made to the unit were your 2nd design plate and the 3-2 mod.