Race Gas / Pump Gas Dual Fuel System.

[SPOT MY 6]

I agree!




You have to do a lot of switching things just to get you up and running on race fuel. I'm not knocking the way you do it but I prefer ease of operation myself. :smile: I have just one tune on my XFI. Up until my set boost level (around 12psi) where the 116 kicks in, I have everything set to 87 octane tune. Anything over that it's on a race tune. The spark table also reflects the differences in 87 to 116 octane.

This is what I have my VE table looking like in my XFI. I use two different size injectors....60lb for 87 octane and 84lb for 116. You can see in this VE table where it switches from 60lb to 84lb injectors or 87 to 116.

Makes sense. But Im entirely concerned with performance, not ease of operation, which is why my setup fits me best. There is nothing that "could" fail in my system which gives me piece of mind. Your setup is cool and seems to work well for you, but its just not my style.

 

[just plain john]

Turbo1dr, I've followed your build with some interest. It seems sweet, but the fabrication to add a second set of injector bungs, plus the fabbing of the second fuel rail, wiring, fuel lines, 2nd regulator, tank, ect. looks to be prohibitivly expensive. If I might ask, what would be the cost to replicate it if I could find the right guy to even do it? I assume you did your own bungs and rail?

 

[Turbo1dr]

Turbo1dr, I've followed your build with some interest. It seems sweet, but the fabrication to add a second set of injector bungs, plus the fabbing of the second fuel rail, wiring, fuel lines, 2nd regulator, tank, ect. looks to be prohibitivly expensive.

That all depends on what you want your car to be able to do. With that being said.... my car is 99.5% street driven so to me it's worth spending 2K to be able to run "race ready" at the drop of my foot...anytime...without the hassle of getting out, flipping switches and switching valves just to able to get ready to run "race ready". Even after doing all that the engine will still be burning race fuel until you get out and switch them all back again...not my style...been there; done that...sorry SPOT MY 6.:smile: Besides, around here, most races are the kind when someone pulls beside you and motions you on. Only dual injector pump/race gas fuel systems and alcohol can be ready 100% of the time in that kind of situation.


More than $2000 can easily be spent with new parts.

This is what I have on mine...used and new parts:
$750 - Champion GN1 intake more room to mount two inj per cylinder. Not absolutely needed though.
$500 - Metco fuel tank with integrated stock sender mount.
$18 - Used sender from salvage yard - Monte Carlo 4.3L unit.
$50 - New Fuel feed line. Use vapor canister line as the return.
$80 - Used adjustable fuel pressure regulator
$350 - New 6 injectors
$12 - New Fuel filter
$20 - 2 New Boost pressure switches
$250 - New dual in-tank fuel pumps
$10 - Used 86-87 Buick LeSabre fuel injector harness
$15 - 2 Used 86-87 Buick LeSabre Fuel injector rails
$15 - 3 relay's and connector harnesses - One for injector switching and the other two for the fuel pumps.
$25 - 12 Blocking diodes for injector harness. (Might be cheaper than that)
$Free 6 bungs
$$$ - Labor to fabricate the intake/fuel rails unless you can do it yourself or have a close buddy with the proper tools.

I assume you did your own bungs and rail?

Yes, I did fabricate custom rails using some from VIN3 FWD engines so it would look similar to stock appearing.

 

[just plain john]

It's very nice. I salute you sir.

 

[Razor]

That all depends on what you want your car to be able to do. With that being said.... my car is 99.5% street driven so to me it's worth spending 2K to be able to run "race ready" at the drop of my foot...anytime...without the hassle of getting out, flipping switches and switching valves just to able to get ready to run "race ready". Even after doing all that the engine will still be burning race fuel until you get out and switch them all back again...not my style...been there; done that...sorry SPOT MY 6.:smile: Besides, around here, most races are the kind when someone pulls beside you and motions you on. Only dual injector pump/race gas fuel systems and alcohol can be ready 100% of the time in that kind of situation.


More than $2000 can easily be spent with new parts.

This is what I have on mine...used and new parts:
$750 - Champion GN1 intake more room to mount two inj per cylinder. Not absolutely needed though.
$500 - Metco fuel tank with integrated stock sender mount.
$18 - Used sender from salvage yard - Monte Carlo 4.3L unit.
$50 - New Fuel feed line. Use vapor canister line as the return.
$80 - Used adjustable fuel pressure regulator
$350 - New 6 injectors
$12 - New Fuel filter
$20 - 2 New Boost pressure switches
$250 - New dual in-tank fuel pumps
$10 - Used 86-87 Buick LeSabre fuel injector harness
$15 - 2 Used 86-87 Buick LeSabre Fuel injector rails
$15 - 3 relay's and connector harnesses - One for injector switching and the other two for the fuel pumps.
$25 - 12 Blocking diodes for injector harness. (Might be cheaper than that)
$Free 6 bungs
$$$ - Labor to fabricate the intake/fuel rails unless you can do it yourself or have a close buddy with the proper tools.



Yes, I did fabricate custom rails using some from VIN3 FWD engines so it would look similar to stock appearing.

You have over 2k just in the parts listed with used parts not counting labor. If you dealt in new parts, you can add another 1k easy plus the labor. And you need the aftermarket ECU not listed either, wiring for it and tuning. A shop would have to charge in excess of 7-8K to replicate what you have.

Altho neat

 

[SPOT MY 6]

That all depends on what you want your car to be able to do. With that being said.... my car is 99.5% street driven so to me it's worth spending 2K to be able to run "race ready" at the drop of my foot...anytime...without the hassle of getting out, flipping switches and switching valves just to able to get ready to run "race ready". Even after doing all that the engine will still be burning race fuel until you get out and switch them all back again...not my style...been there; done that...sorry SPOT MY 6.:smile: Besides, around here, most races are the kind when someone pulls beside you and motions you on. Only dual injector pump/race gas fuel systems and alcohol can be ready 100% of the time in that kind of situation.

You need race fuel to cover the cars you encounter while cruising? That sucks. I save my race fuel for the organized $1k+ street races.

I will admit though that your system got some gears turning in my head since my BS3 can fire up to 16 injectors. Hmmmmm... :biggrin:

 

[Turbo1dr]

I can see how it could cost a lot for a guy that has to pay someone else to do all the work.

As far as needing an aftermarket ECM... there's no need for a aftermarket ECM. Automatic switching works just fine with the stock computer as long as each set of injectors are the same size. The stock ECM never knows it's controlling two sets of injectors as each set pulses independant of each other. That's why I didn't list an aftermarket ECM. You can run a stock ECM with a street tune in the lower portion of the RPM ranges and then still have a race tune in the upper portion of the RPM band of the chip. Basically...just run your race chip all the time! If you want to have two different sizes of injectors like I have then you would have to have an aftermarket fuel management system or have your chip burner get very creative within the code and make one work for the stock ECM.

If you look at my wiring schematics here and here you can see there is nothing in the wiring that the stock ECM controls pertaining to switching anything...including the secondary fuel pump.

I may do another automatic dual fuel system on my Turbo T that I'm restoring but this time I'll using a stock intake manifold and using the stock computer.

 

[Turbo1dr]

You need race fuel to cover the cars you encounter while cruising? That sucks. I save my race fuel for the organized $1k+ street races.

I'm not burning race fuel at all while cruising at anytime. It only uses race fuel after 12psi of boost.

Anything under 12psi it's on 87 octane. Anything over 12 psi it's on 116.

 

[Razor]

Basically the relay flips B+ to the injectors using the 87/87a terminals on a 5 terminal relay. Never thought of this.. good call

 

[just plain john]

Hmmm, back to school for you Razor. BTW, not wanting to hijack, but if I supplied you with an overflow tank, could you hook me up with a system for my El camino?

 

[Razor]

Hmmm, back to school for you Razor. BTW, not wanting to hijack, but if I supplied you with an overflow tank, could you hook me up with a system for my El camino?

The El Camino tank is available brand new from GM.. No need to fuss over a 15.00 tank

Call me..

Back to the subject matter

 

[TURBO 6]

That dual injector system is sweet!

Organized street races..... LOL, I like that.

 

[GNBRETT]

I save my race fuel for the organized $1k+ street races.

$1k would be ur street race entrance fee around here...

 

[SPOT MY 6]

$1k would be ur street race entrance fee around here...

hmmmm Ive never heard of Connecticut being on the map for street racing. Ive personally seen $25k in 5 and 10 dollar bills be passed on the street out here. The next pot race out here is 300 to enter and 10k (as of now and still growing) to win. Its enough to keep it friendly.

Now back on track.... dual fuel systems

 

[GNBRETT]

I am not sure which member sent this to me several years ago (Much appreciated...) but I figured I would post it to see if this can be improved upon or is this all anyone would need to make it work safely and effectively.

 

[GNBRETT]

Last one.

 

[turboc87gn]

Last one.

Great minds think alike i was brainstorming this very idea a month ago then i wander across this thread lol.Aeromotive has high flow one way valves summit stocks them for like 70 bucks

 

[GNBRETT]

Anyone upgarde to this lately? Just curious.

 

[pontiac69fb]

Ever consider switching to E-85 you get race gas performance or better at prices cheaper than regular 87 gas. Pretty easy to switch to e-85 and not too expensive either. Just my 2 cents.

 

[GNBRETT]

Ever consider switching to E-85 you get race gas performance or better at prices cheaper than regular 87 gas. Pretty easy to switch to e-85 and not too expensive either. Just my 2 cents.

There is no E85 in this part of the country. If there was I absolutely would.