races today at LACR...AAAHHHHHHHHH help

[drive805]

well a few of us went to LACR for the "big" buick shootout and were disapointed with the turnout very few cars but got to meet some nice guys burn some rubber and race! feel kinda sorry for steve(BGNRA) he set up a booth and all but still a small trunout!....anyways to my question....i "only" ran low 15's i'm very disapointed with how my car ran i think i need some guidence.....here are my mods walbro 340 hotwired, turbonetics to4H,thrashers92, ported heads and intake, 2 1/2 exhaust ,160 stat, coolant bypass,scanmaster2, kenne bell cam and adj fuel reg, set fuel pressure at 44 first run with 15 #boost 15.34.. 91mph leaving with no boost because i couldn't hold any 2.70 60' no knock o2kv ?? didn't check before i shut off car....upped fuel pressure to 46 turned boost up to 17# next run 15.20
2.68 60ft again leaving with no boost mph 91.9 1.2*knock 662 o2...next run upped fuel to 48 same 60ft same boost same et mph92.4 0knock and 644 o2.....next run upped fuel again to 50 ..60ft 2.65 18#boost but still only ran 15.04 at 92.6mph leaving with no boost because it was pushing me through the staging lights 0 knock and 644 o2 whaats missing here helpPLEASE!

 

[Buick Beginner]

Suspension

Got good rear suspension? Got good tires? Are you transfering the power to the pavement or sending it up in smoke? Sounds to me me like you've got a low 12 second car that's stuck in a 15 second rut. Sorry I couldn't help more. - BB

 

[drive805]

more info

leaving with no boost got no ... zero tire spin........ just didn't leave... but i would figure that i could get at least a low 14 leaving at idle and by the way the motor is new about 3500miles and the trans is good too stock suspention (sp?) but it should still at least run a low 14 sheesh......anyone

 

[suburban]

possibly a fuel delivery problem but the 60' times are killing yah

 

[turbo]

Don't know what injectors you have, but the O2's seem a little low. I'd think you want them up in the 760's, at least.

At this point. I think you should start with a good chip burner. There are some good guys here that can tailor a chip to your combo. I think you have too many goodies that need a "customized" chip. Maybe without the cam and headwork that chip would work better.

Rather than looking for gremilins somewhere else, give one of the chip guys a call and see if they agree. HTH

 

[topfuel]

Originally posted by suburban
possibly a fuel delivery problem but the 60' times are killing yah

Yeah, the 60' times are killing him alright.

Why won't your brakes hold any boost on the line?
Leaving the starting line at idle with no boost isn't gonna
do you any good in a turbo car, your wasting too much time
spooling the turbo from an idle.
Next problem would be traction, good 60' times and ET's
are a function of traction.
What kind of tires are you runnin?
If you want a decent ET, you need to get that turbo spooled
up, as much as the brakes can hold. Then you'll be up in the
powerband sooner, making horsepower.
Slicks or drag radials would help improve your ET too.

Your car is faster than that dude, you just gotta get it off
the starting line a little better

 

[drive805]

more info

trying to get boost the tires would just spin (stock radials) but it should still run 14's another guy that went with us made one run and leaving at idle ran a 14.08 with radials i know that these cars need boost but to only run a 15 sheesh oh also the car has stock down pipe stock injecters and stock intercooler and 4:11 gears and i had a tank of 101 octane and also tried two different chips anyways i see so much here about times run i thought someone could give an idea what to look at first as far as tuning because my MPH is a low 14... 92.6...i just feel slighted because i was told that the car would run better then it did with this set up i should be in the high mid 13 another car that i ran against ran low 13 witha 2.13 60ft at 103mph with a downpipe bluetops and a converter spinning his drag radials another that was there was stock except for a turbo and he ran in the low 15 anyways im just rambling like i said just disappointed though after all the work done that it would run better just missing something and i need to find it so looking for a little help here

 

[TurboDave]

topfuel had some good advice. You aint going to run didly until you get the car some traction. It cant leave off idle and run the kind of numbers you think it should. Your car likely ran exactly what it should run for an off idle start like that.

Remember ET is 75+% traction, and the rest is made up in torque, which both go hand in hand at the line. Getting down the track is "horsepower".

Now, as to why it ran so slow (other than traction). There was another thread in another forum about the race. You'd have seen why the turnout's been so bad over the years at that track. Several reasons:
1. The track altitude is right at about 2,800 ft, BUT the density air there is seldom much below 4500 ft Makes for real tough tuning, and unless you've got a way to tweak the tuneup between runs youre stuck.

2. Hot, windy, dusty track.

Most of us in the Southern CA area don't really like running Turbo Regals there unless we absolutely have to !!!!! (I just left CA which is why I can speak with some experience about that track).

3. You never know about traction. Some days good, some not so good.

Just too many variables. And without a tuning tool (DFI,FAST,Translator/Extender,ME) your at the mercy of the weather, and still are till you can get it sorted out.

The worst runs my car has ever made at any track have always been there I can even run better at Carlsbad with no traction (GREAT air).

4. Everybody's saving there money for the trip to Las Vegas.

 

[Nocooler]

Okay - 91 mph tells me that your making less than stock hp.

You have:
Ported heads
Cam
A bigger turbo (t-netic's Stage 3 cheeta?)
and a few other basic mod's.

With your low 02's and mods it looks like the car could use more injector. What does your convertor stall @? Have you done a leak-down or compression test?

Slicks will knock off a lot of time, but right now it doesn't look like your car is making power like it should.

 

[tom h]

Originally posted by drive805
oh also the car has .... 4:11 gears ...

Anyone else notice this part of the combo? That can't be good. The car is going to run out of rpms very early, and will be crossing the traps well into 4th gear.

 

[CaPPY]

tom h,
Yep, I believe that's part of the probs. I read somewhere, a few years back, that guys were testing a stock setup and just changed gears to a 4:11 and the car went slower.

I'd have to agree about injectors and a chip for that combol

And just to comfirm that he's not developing the hp he should. I was there yesterday. With a TA 49, and the standard basic mods, from a 1350 rpm launch with street radials. My son's car went 14.269 at 102.400 MPH at 20 lbs of boost.

There's the facts...not speculation!!! By the way, paraphrasing what the others said...the track sucks!

 

[drive805]

411 gears

its well into 4th through the lights 4600rpm the car had the gears in it when i bought it just been spending money on other things before i get the 3:42 back in hopefully after the first of the year...
yes i know about the condition of the track....was a little hot but not to hot about 85deg. with no wind... traction was ok i have seen better but i have seen worse too...anyways i was just asking if anyone had any info on what i could look for or do to get my times down but i guess the first thing is gears then tires then maybe injectersagain just disappionted because i thought i would run a tire smoking 14......... thanks for some of the suggestions i will take it again in a few weeks to a closer 1/8 mile track and see what i can do there with some tire...let you know and if anyone has some other ideas please let me know!

 

[STG2LTD]

I'd leave the 4.11's in it and buy a 28" tall tire........should work well!!

Jason Hall
1987 Turbo T Limited

 

[drive805]

more more more

thinking abouta taller tire but i still need to know .....what to look for with the car only running 15's
here it is again... 50#fuel pressure, 18#boost, thrashers chip, 101 in tank 0 knock,o2mv 644, turbonetic to4H, stock inj, adj fuel, walbro 340 hotwired, last run 15.05 at 92.6mph 2.60 60ft stock converter built trans 4:11 gears radial tiresleaving with no boost because power braking at the line started to push me through the lights

 

[turboman38]

Are you heating the tires up?

Some guys like to go around the water box with radials but I disagree with that method.

I ran my GN with 235-60-15 Kelly Springfield radials. I had 17 lbs of air in each tire and an airbag in the passenger side rear. I heated the tires until you could no longer see the back of the car. Left with 4-5 pounds of boost on stock rearend (except for bigger wheels cylinders) and went 12.84 at 105. My mods were Reds XP pump, K&N, open test pipe, Red's volt booster, Red's 108 Chip and a TPS tech. Everything else was stock including the downpipe. Car spun hard but I still mangaged a 1.82 60 foot. This was 5 years ago.

Also agree with everybody on too much gear for the rear. That's another reason your spinning the tires so hard.

Heat the tires and leave harder and see what happens!

 

[Reggie West]

In Palmdale you have to take out a bunch of fuel for the car to run right.

The air is not as good ( by a longshot ) as it would be in Fontana or Pomona.

Set your regulator at 38 psi with the vacuum hose off. You can run 20 psi all day there or more, but that is a good place to start. Use C16 for gas.

If you are using the stock injectors with this combo you will blow a headgasket.

That said you were constantly adding more fuel each time you ran when you should have been using less.

Good luck

 

[drive805]

launching

i did just that and drove around the water box didn't do any burnout...i guess i should try and leave harder but i didn't want to just blow the tires off it and run slow... when i tested before going to the track on a long back road... it just smoked the tires and wasn't really moving....so that is one reason that i didn't do the burn out and trying to leave with boost..... as for the fuel thing i know about the thin air and lean out..but it went faster altho not to much it went faster when i put more fuel so i wanted to try and go until it slowed but its still disapointing to go only 15's with the mods that i have...i'm going to try a few things and see what happens maybe gears maybe injecters just wanted to make sure i wasn't overlooking something and not throwing money at things that shouldn't be

 

[Reggie West]

Your combination is fine. Tuning is what you need. That is all.

 

[TType85]

I know your problem... or atleast part of it...

i'll say this once.... GET RID OF THE THRASHER 92 WHEN YOU RACE!!!!!

I tried running 2 cars on the Trasher 92 and they FELT fast on the street, but when it came time to actually race they both MPH'd 6+MPH LOWER than the Jay Carter and Red Armstrong street chips I had.

Flame suit on......

 

[TurboDave]

Re: I know your problem... or atleast part of it...

Originally posted by TType85
i'll say this once.... GET RID OF THE THRASHER 92 WHEN YOU RACE!!!!!

I tried running 2 cars on the Trasher 92 and they FELT fast on the street, but when it came time to actually race they both MPH'd 6+MPH LOWER than the Jay Carter and Red Armstrong street chips I had.

Flame suit on......

That's pretty common actually, and why I went back to my own chips several years ago, and eventually to my present setup.

They feel strong as he** on the street, but when you get one on the track they fall flat on their face. That happened in both my cars.