Racing - straight or twisties?

[tlturbo]

In my almost 40 years of street "playing", I have never done anything except straight line.

I'm getting tired of all the WRX and ricer types that always say "Yeah, the GN is a great 1/4 mile car, but my **** will tear it up in the twisties".


So my poll is:

IF you drive a performance car and get into a street "performance contest" with another driver, do you go in a straight line (stoplight to stoplight type thing) or go find a twisty road to play on?

 

[denn454]

i think its safe to say not many of us here want anything other than a flat straight road if were going to do any racing. You take every advantage you can get, and for most of us that advantage is a straight line.

My car handles ok for what it is, a big heavy brick. at 100 i wouldn't even think about taking a turn, regardless of how shallow it is. our cars wern't ment for road racing, while its fun to do its asking for either a loss to a slower car, or worse, a complete loss of controll and who knows how that will end.

If i had a vette or somethign that did handle then i think it would be fun to race some twisty roads, but i don't; so i don't.

 

[Buickcruiser]

Built to go strait and fast!!!

GN’s were designed to be ¼ mi. killers, not to rally race. They are too heavy, rear wheel drive, and don’t have the suspension for that type of racing.
But, we will kick some a$$ in the ¼ mi.

 

[NJVetteGuy]

Originally posted by denn454

If i had a vette or somethign that did handle then i think it would be fun to race some twisty roads, but i don't; so i don't.

Even with a big stall auto trans Vette, those little buzzbombs didn't stand a chance. I actually had a GTI VW hit the divider behind me trying to keep up with me through a long sweeping turn at 100+. And if they ran me in a straight line from a dig they got owned. The most straightline fun was a single turbo Supra from a dig, the guy didn't notice I was on ET Streets and it was a complete slaughter(over 10 carlengths). The next light, the guy pulled up next to me and told me that when I launched it threw him off so bad he missed second gear We went again, and even though he was on DRs I got him again, pulled him pretty good till around 90 MPH but then he started coming up. No way he could have caught me in the 1/4 though since I still had him by 3 cars at 115 MPH. We pulled into a parking lot to BS, he learned a new respect for LS1s that night. I'll be looking to make some serious kills in a GN real soon, now that the Vette is sold.

 

[DeltaT]

How about a button for 'Both'?!? I race 'em where I'm driving. The G-bodys have a ton of parts and mods out there to make them handle AND go fast.

Want more info? Go to:

www.pro-touring.com (look for Malibus, Regals, GNs, etc. A nice mix of cars, more geared towards fast & twisty)

or

www.maliburacing.com (lots of G-body info and vendors here; more geared towards drag racing)

Jim

 

[bruce]

A stock GN is meant to be as fast straight line, as it is to handle, IMO.

It's about what you want to reengineer it to do.

All the chassis braces, are a given for either application.

If you consider the stock brakes to be adequate for serious 1/4 mile work, then your idea of what's safe and mine differ. To make a serious straight line car takes a min of front brakes, and then shocks and springs, plus a decent rear roll bar.

Change those same items and you have a car that'll give a ZO6 a rough time. And it'll out muscle most anything exiting the apex.

Mini tub it, 17s, and adhesion is handled at the arse end.

Obviously, I like my cake and eat it too.

 

[UNGN]

20 years ago when cars sucked, you could race a guy "in the twisties" and not fear for your life. Suspension and tire technology back then kept speeds lower. Today, the speeds car's generate in the twisties leave little margin for error. One wrong move now and you are going far off the road.

I love the challenge of racing in twisties. When someone tells me "yeah but I can take you in the twisties" I show them this:

G-body in the twisties or 6 miles in 3 minutes.

Not really the Twisties (the speed limit is 60 mph) but you get the point.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by UNGN
20 years ago when cars sucked, you could race a guy "in the twisties" and not fear for your life. Suspension and tire technology back then kept speeds lower. Today, the speeds car's generate in the twisties leave little margin for error. One wrong move now and you are going far off the road.

I love the challenge of racing in twisties. When someone tells me "yeah but I can take you in the twisties" I show them this:

G-body in the twisties or 6 miles in 3 minutes.

Not really the Twisties (the speed limit is 60 mph) but you get the point.

There's not that much difference in speed, IMO. Even going back 30 years ago. Most roads are too dusty/dirty to really run at the limits anyway. Least around here. In the 70s I played some with some ex Highway Patrol Mopars, with bigger then stock tires, and they weren't too bad. And while the peak Lateral Gs are somewhat different, the overall handling isn't that different in my book. A 66 Fury with a warmed over 440 was a force to be recogned with then as well as now, obviously being lowered with good shocks, etc... And in some of the tire comparos, using 15-16-17 tires, while the lat G's go up .5, the MPH is just slightly higher.

One wrong move at whatever your limits are, is can be bad news.

Looks like he needs a 5 Spd..........

 

[DeltaT]

Here's some of the pieces I've put on my G-body to make it handle and stop:

Wheel Vintique's Billet 90's after hard anodizing, with BFG Gforce KD tires (F: 17x8, 245/40/17; R: 17x9.5, 275/40/17, Y-rated):

Rear Suspension, Moser 12-bolt, Eaton posi, Wolfe Racing spherical UCA, Global West spherical/Delalum LCA, Wilwood 12.2" 4-piston brakes, Herb Adam's 1.5" SB, one 3" exhaust is waiting to be hung here:

Front Suspension, Global West billet hubs & modified B-body spindles, Hotchkis UCA, AFCO springs & 3" weight jackers, Wilwood 13"x1.25 6-piston brakes, Baer Trackers, Herb Adam's 1.25" SB, Polygraphite bushings:

Closeup of front brakes on hubs on spindles:

Trunk shot with twin surprises (1 for each stage) - IN PROGRESS:

Motor to propel this thing:

Supporting bits:

Motor with Hughes 4L80E:

All hidden away in an '81 Malibu 4DR Sedan!

Jim

 

[denn454]

with enough time money and effort almost any car can do almost anything. if for some reason you wanted to, you could make a geo metro run 9's and out handle a corvette. thing is thats not a good starting place.

i have no doubt a regal can handle, look at nascar back in the 80's, back when they used modified production cars. i'm sure they handled very well. but most of us (definatly not all of us) would rather have a fast 1/4 mile car than a good handeling car.

don't get me wrong, i'd love to have my car handle and stop good, but i only have so much money to spend and i'd rather have a bigger turbo than a bigger brakes. someday when i'm rich i'll have it all

 

[DeltaT]

Check out these 2 beautiful Turbo Regals set up for Pro Touring. I love this look and functionality, plus they're quick.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0111gmhtp_gwhiz/

Jim

 

[I eat Z06]

I posted straight line. Even though it is a rush to fly around turns, as you car just hugs the road. That is why I just got the Hotchkis TVS and tubular a-arms. It is so fun to see how fast you can make it down that 1/4 mile stretch. Even with the STi, which is a twisty road car. It has a shift light with audio alert for easier 1/4 runs from the factory. Cant wait to get the GN back out and run it.

Nick

 

[I eat Z06]

That video was awsome. Wonder how much he has into the suspension?

Nick

 

[gn85]

Nice video,

I tend to like both. I like the feel of a car going thru the twisties. A car hanging on the turns, being able to navigate the turns with JUST the right amount of speed, and so on. But whenever I race someone else, I only like straight line.

Let's face it, this isn't NASCAR. I'm not trying to do the bump-and-run with my own car. More worrysome is the idiot next to me that I'm trying to race. One wrong move can take you both out.

For those of you who live in Maryland, you may know of a road that is refered to as 'Seven Hills'. Plenty of people get killed on this road. It's narrow, it's twisty, there are plenty of blind corners and plenty of trees lining the road. When I was in high school (long time ago) we used to go down to this road. The first rule. NO PASSING. We'd go in order of fastest car first, then the next slower and so on. But the real danger for this road was the hills that it's named after. Several of the hills didn't take much more then 50 mph to get a car airborne. This is what really kills people. I can't imagine what the kids in these AWD imports are doing on these roads.

 

[gn85]

Nice video,

I tend to like both. I like the feel of a car going thru the twisties. A car hanging on the turns, being able to navigate the turns with JUST the right amount of speed, and so on. But whenever I race someone else, I only like straight line.

Let's face it, this isn't NASCAR. I'm not trying to do the bump-and-run with my own car. More worrysome is the idiot next to me that I'm trying to race. One wrong move can take you both out.

For those of you who live in Maryland, you may know of a road that is refered to as 'Seven Hills'. Plenty of people get killed on this road. It's narrow, it's twisty, there are plenty of blind corners and plenty of trees lining the road. When I was in high school (long time ago) we used to go down to this road. The first rule. NO PASSING. We'd go in order of fastest car first, then the next slower and so on. But the real danger for this road was the hills that it's named after. Several of the hills didn't take much more then 50 mph to get a car airborne. This is what really kills people. I can't imagine what the kids in these AWD imports are doing on these roads.

 

[SyHopeful]

Originally posted by bruce
Change those same items and you have a car that'll give a ZO6 a rough time. And it'll out muscle most anything exiting the apex.

Hey bro! Pass the pipe over here!

 

[Rigel]

I personaly want to play in both worlds.

I am going to by a GN for straight line work

My Lesabre T-type is already about where I want for supension work I just gotta get an engine built and dropped in. gotta fiqure out how to fit a small turbo on that 3800 engine.

It handles like a dream in the twisties

On-ramps are like play toys!....


Lesabre MODS to improve supension

KYB shocks all around.
Enhanced Shock mounts (aka more steel support.)
stock 1.5 inch front sway bar
aftermarket 1.35 inch rear
Strut tower brace (across engine bay)

You guys will laugh but best in the 1/4
16.3s

give me time and a bank loan I will be a member of the dark side.


Rigel

 

[2000wrx]

since when do GN's turn....


I plan to buy a GN just for the point and shoot huge power factor. They are the American Supra (thats a compliment... no really)

 

[DeltaT]

Here's 2 that do:

and the article about them:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0111gmhtp_gwhiz/

They aren't the only ones out there that will thrash most cars on the straights and in the curves...

Jim

 

[2000wrx]

My point was that GN's don't turn well. I would like to see some performance numbners for those two cars...

The GN just isn't engineered to turn... solid rear axle just isn't a good thing for turning. Not to say that they can't be improved greatly.