READY TO GIVE UP!! - found water on top of head, need help...please

[PaulRV6]

New rebuild (second time) after damage to cam brgs. Ran the car 20 min. on the highway with one 16 psi blast and 2 short 10 psi blasts around town. All felt good. Decided to cut open filter to check brgs after first rebuild when I wiped cam/main brgs. Filter looked ok, great.

Pulled into garage, opened hood and heard something dripping internally (no signs of anything leaking exteranlly). I could hear a drip and then sizzle about every 20 seconds. Didn't think anything of it until now, when I pulled the driver valve cover off to RE-TORQUE the head (from my earlier post), this is when I found water sitting in the low spots of the head (instant lump in stomach).
I drained the oil from the pan but found no signs of any water in it.

Where is it coming from and what can I check? Like I said, I had just rebuilt this for the 2nd time and this is getting old and frustrating!!!

Obviously the sizzle I heard was from the water leaking in but from what/where? How can I positively check this out without pulling engine? What went wrong?

Sorry this is so long but needed to get the facts out. Please respond with expert and sound advice as I do not need to be spinning my wheels as this is getting very expensive and time consuming. THANKS folks.

paul

 

[Mac in SD]

1. Stay calm.
2. Probably just be water seeping up the threads of head bolts/studs. What sealer did you use on the threads?
3. Which heads: stock iron or GN1 aluminum? Were they magnafluxed? Cracks?

4. I'd guess water seeping up the headbolt threads. Try some KW block sealer or GM cadillac pellets.

 

[Chyke]

Yes

Stay Calm,
But I would proceed differently. There are some things you just don't leave to chance. Remove your heads, clean the treads in the block with a thread file, clean the threads on your bolts, studs or what ever you used to clamp the heads on. Make sure every head bolt hole and every head blot/stud is completely free of oils, etc. Go buy some ARP or Permatex high performance teflon head bolt sealer. Apply good let set over night, and reassemble. Anyone who has ever used this stuff will tell you nothing but good things about it.

Also, do make sure all other parts are in appropriate condition as mentioned earlier.

 

[PaulRV6]

To answer your questions Mac:
Thay are stock heads, used before with water problem so I am assuming no cracks (no hard use to cause them to crack).
I used ARP thread sealer on all the studs, never had a problem before with this sealer.

What about the internal dripping hitting something hot that I heard?

Any ideas on what I can look for before pulling this all apart? Just spent 90.00 on the head gaskets (as well as every other gasket)so I am not going to remove unless I am absolutely sure that is the problem. Don't forget, there was no water in the oil pan (unless it just hasn't been run long enough.

Please more ideas.

paul

 

[rob nolan]

Originally posted by PaulRV6
To answer your questions Mac:
Thay are stock heads, used before with water problem so I am assuming no cracks (no hard use to cause them to crack).
I used ARP thread sealer on all the studs, never had a problem before with this sealer.

What about the internal dripping hitting something hot that I heard?

Any ideas on what I can look for before pulling this all apart? Just spent 90.00 on the head gaskets (as well as every other gasket)so I am not going to remove unless I am absolutely sure that is the problem. Don't forget, there was no water in the oil pan (unless it just hasn't been run long enough.

Please more ideas.

paul

I had the same problem, I went ahead and put the GM pellets in and it quit leaking. Just fire your car up and check every stud on the head i bet that is where it's coming from. Good Luck!!!!

 

[PaulRV6]

What if I pressurize the cooling system to say 20 psi, maybe find where it is leaking? Would this be something conclusive?

paul

 

[Mac in SD]

Paul, I'd bet dollars to donuts that it's leaking via the stud threads, and that the sizzling is from one of the outside studs dripping on the header.

You could drive yourself nuts with pressure tests, removing the heads, etc., but why not just go get the GM factory-used Cadillac Pellets (every stinking Northstar engine gets 'em before it leaves the factory) for a couple of bucks and try them first?

 

[PaulRV6]

Will these pellets work ok with water/RMI-25 mix which I

 

[Red Regal T]

Pellets sound like a good idea. You said you only ran it for 20 minutes. I'd run it some more to make sure I had a problem before I'd go crazy.

 

[6PacktoGo]

Leaky studs

Leaking studs is the EXACT reason I started installing studs the way I do. The red 271 Loctite will eliminate that problem, if used as described.

The Cadillac pills are a good solution, there are a few other options. One trick I use is to put in KW Block Seal, by the instructions, and allow it to cure, then put a jar of pure sodium silicate in it (buy it at the drug store), get it hot, drive it for an hour, let it set an hour, then drain it and let it cure for 24 hours. Sodium silicate is what you see Winston Cup teams use when they have a leak they can't fix during the race. I would advise that you bypass your heater when using any form of leak stopper, until you are ready to refill with normal coolant. You can also use Moroso Ceramic Seal. Used properly, the KW, sodium silicate, or Moroso will usually effect a permanent repair, with no adverse side effects. They won't be affected by normal coolant or RMI.

 

[Mac in SD]

Sodium silicate, huh? Very interesting....

Alan, what does the sodium silicate add or do to help the KW or Moroso?

 

[Steve Wood]

Can you still buy it at the drug store....?? I have not bought any since about 1964......Used to be called WaterGlass....

 

[Gn-Krazzie]

sodium silicate is also used in Municipal Water systems as a water treatment. Its a coagulant agent.

 

[PaulRV6]

I still am not convinced I have leaky studs, especially with the way I heard something dripping internally. I also did a leakdown check on the #3 cyl since that is where I heard the sizzling and it was at least 16% (chart did not go that high). Although this could be attributed to the rings not seated yet but not sure how long it may take.
Any other suggestions?

paul

I am going to try some GM pellets though and see if anything changes, but still would like something conclusive.

 

[KendallF]

Here's my suggested course of action: try the tabs, drive the car a bit. Check the oil and the top of the head again. If it clears up, great..you spent a couple of bucks.

If there is still water present then you can pull the heads. That's what your options boil down to regardless of diagnostics. Just check it often and don't let it turn to milkshake on you.

You mentioned a leakdown: did you do the other cylinders also? If you did and they differed greatly from #3, you have a problem and will probably end up disassembling something anyway.

 

[Jimn8or]

FWIW, I've also heard where the intake manifold didn't seal correctly around the water ports. If you take this off it may be difficult to determine on such little use. Because of these concerns I sprayed the Fel-Pro 96033 intake gasket with Copper High-Tack, by permatex. Dunno if this is your issue or not, but I can imagine water going around a non-sealed intake gasket and boiling on an intake valve quite easily.
HTH
Jim

 

[Russ Merritt]

Let me guess, felpro 1000 headgaskets right?

 

[6PacktoGo]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Sodium silicate, huh? Very interesting....

Alan, what does the sodium silicate add or do to help the KW or Moroso?

Many of the leak fix in a can mixtures contain sodium silicate, KW Block Seal does for instance, but in low concentrations. The addition of a coat of pure sodium silicate just seals a little better. It can often yield a slightly more positive and more permanent seal.