Real opinions on alcohol injection

[Not Avg 6]

I'm seriously considering getting an alky kit for this season. My car is 85% street. I'm gettting tired of buying race gas and sometimes it's a little scary tuning with a mix in the tank. Can't afford 100 octane unleaded full time. What are the real pro's and con's of using alky? I really have'nt heard one bad thing about it and everyone that has it says it's one of the best mods that they ever added. If it's so great, how come more mostly street cars don't all have it? I know it's proven and I been doing my research. Are people just a little hesitate or slow to come around? Just wanted a general opinion before I cross over. I would have asked this in the alky forum but I wanted everyone's opinion. Alkyholics be sure to chime in also.

Thanks,

Alkyholic on the border line

 

[gn85]

This is a mod I've been kicking around for a while and I REALLY am going to do it this summer.. I promise. My reason for not having done it yet... quite simply.. not enough time. But I should have more time this summer and be able to, so there's no excuse.

I really like the idea of running pump gas, but also being able to have that boost turned up. Also, to me, it seems like an issue of insurance. With the quality of gas dropping and price rising, it seems to be 'cheap insurance'.

I'm sure some people are intimidated by the install.. or the tuning. But I get the feeling once you get the 'hang of it' you should be good to go.

 

[Nick Micale]

Great question!

I am glad that someone finally asked this question the way you have.

You will get many replies of how good using alchy is on the street and how fast cars have gone at the strip. Just thought I would put in my opinion which is mainly on the "con" side.

My reason for this is that many owners use alchy injection as a substitute for race gas. It has limitations, and exceeding them will be expensive from my experience.

First, tuning with alchy and pump gas is difficult. Pump gas varies widely across the country in octane and blend, lots of areas have alcohol already blended in it.

Locally, with 91 octane pump gas [highest avail. here], 20-22 psi boost is about the safe level of performance. Have seen the carnage to head gaskets above that level.

With unleaded race gas, the alchy does not seem to be much help as far as increasing boost. Here is the real "danger", guys turn up boost 26-28 psi and no knock retard is present. However, a few runs at that level and head gaskets are done? Don't ask me to explaine how or why, I have just seen the results.

My advice to local guys going this way, is to remember, it is NOT a substitute for race gas. On the street, you can run more boost with pump gas usually past the point of decent traction. Get greedy with the boost, and you will pay the price.

 

[Bens87tr]

I love it. One of the best mods I've ever done. I drive three hours down the the track in New Jersey, don't change a thing on the car (not even tire pressure), and I'm able to run 11's. Make the last pass, grab my timeslip and keep on driving right out the gate. Alcohol allows me that luxury.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

I have it on my daily driver and it allows me to run a Eric Marshall 28° of WOT timing chip for stock injectors and 22 psi of boost with zero knock- SMC single m10 nozzle with the controller set at 4.5 to 5.0 depending on temperature.
i wish i had Julios progressive kit so i can run meth, that will be my next upgrade to my car.
when i go to the track, i can ad more alky and more boost for more performance, i just keep the boost and alky low so i can conserve the alky. i usually fill i up once a month, it just depends how much i get after it!



Personally i dont think tuning in the alky is too bad,purchase a alky chip and make sure you have the alky kit working properly and start turning up the boost, usually about 5 more psi of boost than 91 octane can handle with a 93 street chip.

Make sure you upgrade your tranny, or at least get a huge trans cooler
BW

 

[Renthorin]

I love my alky injection. Very easy to install and at least for me, I don't ever tune it. Get it set and forget about it.

I have zero knock and run 23psi when I want to. I mainly got it so on the freeway when I want to haul a$$ around someone I don't get knock.

I could run 18psi on the street with 93 octane in first and second but when I was in 3rd I knocked.

Alky fixed that all for me. I don't run at the track so I don't know how fast I could go with it. I just know that for cruising on the street and pulling into any gas station....it is the best.

 

[sixgun86gn]

The money is better spent on building the motor right.I got mine running 11.20s on straight 93 @ 16#.Faster than just about all stock block motors at higher boost with alky.

Yep,don't buy race gas.........buy headgaskets.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
The money is better spent on building the motor right.I got mine running 11.20s on straight 93 @ 16#.Faster than just about all stock block motors at higher boost with alky.

Yep,don't buy race gas.........buy headgaskets.

so its money better spent to spend 5000-6000 for motor work,than 500-600 for a alky kit

alot of cars still have the motors unopened, alky is a easy way to gain 75 horses for less than 600.00 total with chip, alky, and alky kit.

BW

 

[sixgun86gn]

Well,put it this way.I can fill up on the same pump gas as you and not worry if the alky tank is full and still kick your tail on 23# (or whatever)+ Alky.Spend your $600,you will quickly catch up in the price of headgaskets and time working on the car.

BTW I actually built my production 4.1 for around $2000 total with the heads and everything.Not exactly $5000 or $6000.Don't blow it out of proportion.

 

[Renthorin]

He does have a good point. If I had a whole lot of money I would build the motor and not go the alky route.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of money to throw at a weekend cruiser so I went with alky.

As for the whole "no race gas = blown headgaskets" I thought you popped head gaskets because of detonation.

If that is true, then it makes no difference whether you use race gas or alky to supress detonation the end result is the same = no blown headgaskets.

 

[turbot2112]

cant beat a pac kit from razor. best upgrade ive ever done. tuning dosent get any easier than with the pac kit either.

 

[sixgun86gn]

What I am saying is you have a better change of detonating on the alky and blowing headgaskets.Especially while trying to go as fast as you can.Race gas gives you a litle more security.

 

[Renthorin]

Sixgun, I completely agree that race gas is better protection as you have far less chance of running the gas tank dry on a pass than running the alky tank dry.

I just don't think comments like "Yep,don't buy race gas.........buy headgaskets." need to be made as they do not depict the alky scene honestly and fairly.

In my case, I don't go to the track so alky was a cheap bolt on that gave me excellent results. It seems like Not Avg 6 is more of a street cruiser than a racer like me so a seriously built motor is probably not in his future.

 

[brian]

I was an opponent/non-believer of alky for years. I continued to spend money on race fuel and O2 sensors. I finally decided to try SMC`s alky on my car and now I am a believer. I would drive my car 40 miles a day to work round trip at times. And the wasted money for sensors and fuel would have paid off an alky kit many moons ago.
I currently have a `03 Regal GS that I have purchased a Alky control kit for. It is a great bang for the buck.
20-23 psi on a GN never came so inexpensive. Just be sure to set the car up with a scan tool to BE SURE to have no knock.
Either an SMC, or alky control kit will show no downsides on a street car. In my opinion.
Thanks, Brian

 

[sixgun86gn]

In all honesty it is fair.One of the best things I ever did was get rid of my alky kit and do it right.Spent more time driving the car than fixing it.I will bet money that he WILL blow at least one headgasket trying to get all that mystical "power" from that alky kit.



Bottom line....if you can't change your own headgaskets or work on your own car....don't buy alky,it will cost you $$$.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Alky is not a substitute for race gas as in 112 or higher, its not nessarily what you want to use to try and get a new best time by pushing the limits because those limits on alky come around a lot quicker, on that note alky is the best mod bar none that ive ever done. Building the motor is great and all, as as you can see by my sig my 3.8 is fairly well done and on 17 psi even with a little 44 ran 11.93 at 113 on a 60 degree day. building the motor is great, but adding alky on top of that can only make it better. My first track pass with the alky resulted in a blown headgasket that i thought was because i pushed the alky too far, 23 psi and 23* timing through the 1/8 and trapped 96 mph (1.5 mph higher than any race gas speed ive had before) but after that things happened quick and i blew both headgaskets. I changed them and got the car running again and after a few passes on the street realized that the tranny was what cause it as it would "neutral" at the top of 2nd and third and thats what it did at the track causing it to over rev and tag the limiter at the top of 3rd. just because you have alky doesn't mean you have to push its limits, 22-23 psi and a good alky chip is everybit as safe as running 110 and the same levels imo. Having that all the time is incredible and will blow most other street cars away. There are no downsides and tuning on alky is simple. There is no magic at work for a simple setup. If you go into the alky section you can see how far Razor has gone alky only and with all his experimenting with different amounts of alky etc... He has gone extremly fast but for your average joe without his knowledge a basic setup at a safe tune is exactly what they are looking for.

 

[sixgun86gn]

Razor doesn't have just alky.He has heads and stuff too.The alky is not the only thing letting him go that far.

11.93 on pump only for your motor is probably not the best it can do.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
In all honesty it is fair.One of the best things I ever did was get rid of my alky kit and do it right.Spent more time driving the car than fixing it.I will bet money that he WILL blow at least one headgasket trying to get all that mystical "power" from that alky kit.



Bottom line....if you can't change your own headgaskets or work on your own car....don't buy alky,it will cost you $$$.

its no different than people running race gas all the time, its not a fair % to give but most blown headgaskets have occured on race gas when people push past the limits, learn the limits on what ever your running for fuel and you'll be fine. There is no mystical power from alky, it cools the intake charge and ups the octane period, learn to use it to its full advantages and it can be 95% as affective as race gas. Alky is new and a lot of people may blow headgaskets but headgaskets have been blown for years in these cars no matter the gas, its the price you pay trying to squeeze the most power out of a small v6 with 8 bolts holding down all that cylinder pressure. Just because you either had a crappy alky kit, or didn't know how to tune it doesn't mean its bad, if you added alky to your car as of now it would go faster than you have on 93 no doubt, your just not giving it a chance.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
Razor doesn't have just alky.He has heads and stuff too.The alky is not the only thing letting him go that far.

11.93 on pump only for your motor is probably not the best it can do.

I understand he has a lot more done to it, but hes doing it on 93 and alky and not race gas thats my point, its not adding anything over race gas performance wise other than the convenience of running it all the time and for a lot cheaper in the long run. I could have gone quicker on a better 60 as it was only a 1.80, i should have said i did that in street trim, up at noble this year my first run was on 93, 17 psi and my slicks and it ran an 11.68 at 113 on a 1.58 60 so yes it can go quicker but with out a bigger turbo its really not gonna mph very much higher

 

[sixgun86gn]

JD,ever heard of Bill Duke?

If you have you should ask him how many motors he has seen destroyed by people trying to use alcohol.