Rear End Upgrades Advice

[jwillettgn]

We have pulled the rear end out from under the GN and are starting the upgrades. What we have is Moser 30 spline axles with a new Eaton 30 spline posi unit, 1350 yoke, HR parts suspension, a T/A Performance rear cover, and stud kit for the carrier bearings. We are looking at the C-Clip Eliminator Kits and not sure which way to go. When I pulled the drums off they are toast and we will need new ones so was thinking about converting to disc brakes while I had everything out. I read somewhere that after some disc brake conversions you do not need C-Clip Eliminators. What are my best options? I am also not sure what wheel stud size I need for the Moser axles or if I should up the size. ½” X 3” close to stock dia. or 5/8” X 3”. Thanks for any input.

Jim

 

[John Wilde]

We have pulled the rear end out from under the GN and are starting the upgrades. What we have is Moser 30 spline axles with a new Eaton 30 spline posi unit, 1350 yoke, HR parts suspension, a T/A Performance rear cover, and stud kit for the carrier bearings. We are looking at the C-Clip Eliminator Kits and not sure which way to go. When I pulled the drums off they are toast and we will need new ones so was thinking about converting to disc brakes while I had everything out. I read somewhere that after some disc brake conversions you do not need C-Clip Eliminators. What are my best options? I am also not sure what wheel stud size I need for the Moser axles or if I should up the size. ½” X 3” close to stock dia. or 5/8” X 3”. Thanks for any input.

Jim

What are your performance goals for the car?

 

[jwillettgn]

John,

With the setup we have now we should be putting 550 to 600 HP to the wheels. We are running a Blow through CSU carb system and Keven feels these power levels should be no problem. We are running a T-400 with a brake and a 3200-3400 converter with the full HR parts suspension. This is the starting point and alot more is only a turbo swap away and looking for low 10's to high 9's. Now if the V6 doesen't hold together we will be doing like alot of others and go with a BBC and be done with it. Would welding on Ford ends be better in the long run?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[norbs]

You have a good bunch of parts, but the axles tubes will still flex on launch and need to be welded. The posi unit will break if your going mid 9s over time and the axle size is marginal at that level too. You will need to go to a spool and larger axles. If its a street car the normal ball bearing moser c-clips kits will leak, in time, go with the ford ends. Or spend 2300 and get a complete ford 9". I got mine from Quickperformance and was happy with the service and pricing, but go with a moser housing its real nice quality stuff. Or you can spend in the 8.5 or sell it as is now and start fresh.

 

[John Wilde]

Welding the ford ends on is a better option that the c clip eliminators.
I have the CE on my car and they are a challenge to seal.
Mark Williams makes a 35 spline spool but you may have to use different
axle tubes. The 33 spline stuff would into the 8s and will work with out as much customization.
I would recommend going with a spool even if you do some street driving, if this will be primarily a race car.

You can keep the existing set up for a while,
based on you making around 750tq guess your
Have you checked the calculators on the moser site?
Based on you making around 750tq guess your

Moser Engineering

Sorry if this does not make sense I am eating dinner and taking care of my
7 month old son.

 

[John Wilde]

You have a good bunch of parts, but the axles tubes will still flex on launch and need to be welded. The posi unit will break if your going mid 9s over time and the axle size is marginal at that level too. You will need to go to a spool and larger axles. If its a street car the normal ball bearing moser c-clips kits will leak, in time, go with the ford ends. Or spend 2300 and get a complete ford 9". I got mine from Quickperformance and was happy with the service and pricing, but go with a moser housing its real nice quality stuff. Or you can spend in the 8.5 or sell it as is now and start fresh.

Norbs is right you can sell the existing rear and recover up to half of what you would need into a new Ford or Dana Unit.

 

[jwillettgn]

Sorry if this does not make sense I am eating dinner and taking care of my 7 month old son.

I know all about that, LOL been watching you son grow up over the last 7 months.:smile: What I am doing is trying to make this car as safe as it can be as my son will be the driver. Even at 24 years old you still look out for them.

Norbs, that may be the best way to go.


Thanks for the advice.

Some pics of out setup can be seen here: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/before-black-non-sfi-tech/208699-fastest-carbed-turbo-regal-2.html

Jim

 

[John Wilde]

I know all about that, LOL been watching you son grow up over the last 7 months.:smile: What I am doing is trying to make this car as safe as it can be as my son will be the driver. Even at 24 years old you still look out for them.

Norbs, that may be the best way to go.


Thanks for the advice.

Jim

Jim,

Don't take any chances with your son.
Either sell the rear end and buy a turn key deal
or get a spool with the 33 spline axles and 9inch bearing ends.

 

[norbs]

Here's a pic of mine. The housing and 35 spline axles are 100 lbs and the alum center with gear 55lbs. The detroit locker is lighter than a posi, and drives fine around corneers, just take a bit to get used to from a standing stop as you have to take up the preload on the ratchet.

 

[norbs]

i found this old post

My personal opinion is what will effect the 8.5 the most is the weight of the car. Mine is 3650 and I never broke the axles or the housing. What I did was the pinion gear sheared off all the teeth of the ring gear after running three 1.33 60's the 4th one it made a big BOOM. From what I seen and read like you all have.
(many people running faster than me) is that the 8.5 is a strong rear end but I think the weight of the car is what will kill them.

My 8.5 rear end had the 30 spline axles, welded tubes, Detroit Locker and aftermarket rear cover, c-clip eleminators with bigger bearings on the end. You can not get a set of pro gears for our 8.5 rear ends. No one makes them. So after spending a total of $1,700 to beef up the 8.5 and then to fix it after I broke it I went with a 9".

Have a Happy Holiday.
__________________
Neal
2006 HD V-Rod VRSCSE2
69 Z-28 Pro Street
Life is a trip, enjoy the ride

 

[Dreamcar86]

Here's a pic of mine. The housing and 35 spline axles are 100 lbs and the alum center with gear 55lbs. The detroit locker is lighter than a posi, and drives fine around corneers, just take a bit to get used to from a standing stop as you have to take up the preload on the ratchet.

That is awesome! If you do not mind, what do you have invested in that kind of setup?

 

[norbs]

I stayed with the GN aluminum drums and 1970 chevelle brakes I would say $3000 complete shipped with new brakes to my door in Canada. Money well spent, i do not regret it at all, on less thing to worry about with a 20+psi launch on the transbrake. However do not forgot there is still a 3% power loss over the gm rear, since the pinion sits lower in the 9". The locker drives absolutely silent around turns. The only thing is you feel a slight clunk from a dead stop when locker engages.

 

[Dreamcar86]

I stayed with the GN aluminum drums and 1970 chevelle brakes I would say $3000 complete shipped with new brakes to my door in Canada. Money well spent, i do not regret it at all, on less thing to worry about with a 20+psi launch on the transbrake. However do not forgot there is still a 3% power loss over the gm rear, since the pinion sits lower in the 9". The locker drives absolutely silent around turns. The only thing is you feel a slight clunk from a dead stop when locker engages.

Thank you for the information. Sounds like a good investment to me. One could keep rebuilding the factory unit or step up to the plate like you did and have one less worry.

 

[jdpolzin]

I have a couple questions for the 9" guys:

Have you looked at this website?
Quick Performance INC.

Also, I see they have a set up that includes rear discs, I am wondering if you can use an e-brake on a 9"?

Can you use the same driveshaft?

 

[norbs]

Thats where my rear came from, but instead of using there housing i ordered up a moser through them, which is a bit heavier duty. Email them with all your questions and they are very good with quick responses. The stock driveshaft will have to be shortend and converted to 1350 series. The brakes are a hassle with the parking brake setup, i didn't want the BS. I have metallic ceramic shoes on the back, that stop amazing and chevelle 7/8" bolt on wheel cylinders that bolt in, not like the silly clips the buicks use.

There email addy is right on there site. Good guys to deal with and honest.

 

[jdpolzin]

I just bought my 3.5" Aluminum driveshaft and now I'm thinking of replacing the rear end. Go figure! I suppose it wouldnt be hard to sell this driveshaft though! I will actually be looking into rear discs with an e-brake.

 

[norbs]

Is this for your stage II setup i assume? I

 

[jdpolzin]

Yeah, i think i should be calling the project "Weakest Link"! Talk about BIG $$$$. I guess thats just how it goes!