Rebuild Advice

[Sabot15]

I'll start by apologizing ahead of time to the people who will put their palm over their face and shake their head while reading this. Sorry! Also, sorry that this is a little long... I'll put a TLDR version at the bottom!

I've owned a completely stock '87 WE-4 for the last 13 years. It's a straight car with no rust, but it's got 172,000 miles. I've probably put 300 miles on it total, but that's because I was finishing my Ph.D, and I put buying a house before putting money into the Buick.

I'm finally settling down now, and I've got a little bit left over to start my Buick project! It decided to give me a reason to get started a couple of weeks ago when the bearing in the turbo decided to crap out. Instead of replacing it with a stock unit, I'd like to beef things up a bit.

A short list of what I'm thinking about include a TE-66, 60lb injectors, a double pumper, a 3200 stall converter, a 3" downpipe, a 4" intake, alky inject, and a chip. I'll probably pick up a new set of aftermarket headers since the driver's side is cracked anyway. Obviously, I'll brace it, etc. I'd like to target mid 10's to very low 11's, but I would still like it to be streetable.

So anyway, my question is this. Considering the high miles, should I rebuild the bottom end before going crazy? I know I need a new timing chain, and right now the engine rattles and sounds kind of loud above 3,500 RPM. I can't tell if the noise is coming from the valve train or deeper within, but I think its probably the lifters. There's no noise at idle, and the noise doesn't change whether it's warm or cold. It does not burn oil or smoke, and the compression test looks good. Of course it leaks oil like a sieve, and I'd like to get new seals either way.

The other question is... If I should rebuild it, should I attempt to do it myself? I've worked on cars for years, and I'm very mechanically inclined. I once pulled apart a '71 monte carlo but didn't finish it, because I bought the Buick and quickly lost interest in spending that kind of cash on an ugly old monte! I plan to do a ton of reading before working on it, but I have a huge underlying fear that I'll rebuild it, crank it, and blow a head gasket or worse.

So what's the verdict? Am I crazy for even considering doing it myself?


.......
TLDR version - 172k miles, good compression, doesn't burn oil but rattles at high RPM... should I rebuild the bottom end before really pushing the engine?

 

[turbotroy]

Yes

 

[Fast Farmer]

What oil are you using? I like Shell Rotella T 15W-40. I have seen it quiet down several motors. First one was my Dad's F-250 with a 5.4 liter gas motor. Valvetrain noise was bad, and would loose oil. I guess it was burning it but no smoke. Was not leaking. Anyway, we pulled it into the shop, and changed it to Rotella, and all of our problems went away. We were previously using 5W-20 Motorcraft at first, and then Mobil 1 of the same weight. Might be worth a try. Also, you might want to make sure that the oil cooler is not partially plugged. If it was mine, I would eliminate the oil cooler and the adapter at the filter for it.

 

[6cylboost]

yes

 

[Sabot15]

What oil are you using? I like Shell Rotella T 15W-40. I have seen it quiet down several motors. First one was my Dad's F-250 with a 5.4 liter gas motor. Valvetrain noise was bad, and would loose oil. I guess it was burning it but no smoke. Was not leaking. Anyway, we pulled it into the shop, and changed it to Rotella, and all of our problems went away. We were previously using 5W-20 Motorcraft at first, and then Mobil 1 of the same weight. Might be worth a try. Also, you might want to make sure that the oil cooler is not partially plugged. If it was mine, I would eliminate the oil cooler and the adapter at the filter for it.

Nothing special on the oil at the moment. I think it was 10-30, and I did try an additive for high miles engines... probably why my turbo went! You might have a point about the oil cooler. I know my turbo was not getting properly oiled, which is what caused the failure. It wouldn't surprise me if the cooler was also working less efficiently than it should.

yes

Yes, rebuild it, or yes I'm crazy?

 

[blackgn1]

You could do it. Would I suggest it? NO! I have rebuilt several engines. Chevys and Chryslers. Would I rebuild my Turbo Regal. No way. I leave my Turbo engine builds to the pros.

 

[Nick Micale]

..........I've owned a completely stock '87 WE-4 for the last 13 years. It's a straight car with no rust, but it's got 172,000 miles. I've probably put 300 miles on it total, but that's because I was finishing my pH.D......

The other question is... If I should rebuild it, should I attempt to do it myself? I've worked on cars for years, and I'm very mechanically inclined. I once pulled apart a '71 monte carlo but didn't finish it, ....
So what's the verdict? Am I crazy for even considering doing it myself?

I must say I was highly "amused" with you enthusiasm, but trying to envision a PHD removing a turbo Buick engine, and then rebuilding it should be a featured documentary.

A ''71 Monte had no metric bolts, so you need to start with a set of metric tools and some precision measuring instrument as well as other special tools. So if you do not have an engine hoist and stand, all the "stuff" required just to do the job will cost more than having it done by a pro.

Do not take this personal, as I am just having some fun at your expense!

Recently a customer had his car towed to me as a "mechanic friend" built and installed a turbo fresh engine. It was towed since it would barely run, much less drive across town. It cost him an additional $2000 to redo and fix all the mistakes and screw ups.

In my case I do have a BSME with an automotive option, but still rely on a qualified and experienced machinist who does this on a daily basis to help with the engine machining, so my answer to you would be a NO!

 

[turbotroy]

Yes to both questions big grin! I've built plenty of engines in my day, 20 years ago. Still have enough tools and knowledge to r and r engine and trans, but rather then buying all the required equipment to properly do it myself and then still mess up something, I'd rather have Nick Micale do it as he's close AND experienced with these engines. This ain't no small block chevy! Cheers

 

[jasjamz]

A properly rebuilt turbo Buick engine, by a reputable Turbo Buick Engine builder will give you the foundation you can enjoy and build on for years to come. There are things you need to do for longevity, performance, and to spend the money logically. Please don't do what some do. Go off and do what they are told by some "All Makes and Models Racing Engines" shop then coming back here asking why $7500 later they're going 13.07@103!!!

 

[The Radius Kid]

The other question is... If I should rebuild it, should I attempt to do it myself? I've worked on cars for years, and I'm very mechanically inclined. I once pulled apart a '71 monte carlo but didn't finish it, because I bought the Buick and quickly lost interest in spending that kind of cash on an ugly old monte! I plan to do a ton of reading before working on it, but I have a huge underlying fear that I'll rebuild it, crank it, and blow a head gasket or worse.

So what's the verdict? Am I crazy for even considering doing it myself?


.......
TLDR version - 172k miles, good compression, doesn't burn oil but rattles at high RPM... should I rebuild the bottom end before really pushing the engine?

If you're going to rebuild it yourself,you'll know if you're capable by the time you get it out and stripped down.
Pulling things apart is easy most times,but assembling them properly can be the real tell.
You have to know what you're looking at when you're sizing things up for reassembly.
Any yard ape can bolt together a bunch of parts,but getting all done right so it works out the first time with no problems can be a trick.
Even experienced assemblers get bit in the shorts every once in a while.
It just a matter of whether you can fix the problem without any major drama.
I'm telling you this as a Machinist/Fitter with 30+ years experience.
I will say this,it never hurts to find Buick people in your area.
Whereabouts are you located?
BTW,I'd find out what's causing your rattle before I went any further.

 

[Sabot15]

I must say I was highly "amused" with you enthusiasm, but trying to envision a PHD removing a turbo Buick engine, and then rebuilding it should be a featured documentary.

Haha, well... I would take off my lab coat before I started! (I'm a chemist.) I've always done my own work on cars... too many bad experiences with mechanics.

But yeah... based on what I'm reading here, I'll probably get the work done by a reputable shop. Looks like this is going to turn into an expensive endeavour.

Where abouts are you located?

I'm in northern Delaware. I attended a few MAGNA meetings years ago... just out side of Englishtown, NJ. I don't really know any Buick guys in the area here though... Heck, I've only seen two turbo regals on the road around here in the last 5 years, and they were beaters.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Haha, well... I would take off my lab coat before I started! (I'm a chemist.) I've always done my own work on cars... too many bad experiences with mechanics.

But yeah... based on what I'm reading here, I'll probably get the work done by a reputable shop. Looks like this is going to turn into an expensive endeavour.



I'm in northern Delaware. I attended a few MAGNA meetings years ago... just out side of Englishtown, NJ. I don't really know any Buick guys in the area here though... Heck, I've only seen two turbo regals on the road around here in the last 5 years, and they were beaters.

The MAGNA guys are pretty good,from what I've seen.
I would hit English Town raceway on a weekend and see how many GN's are there.

 

[Jonasterg]

+1 for the MAGNA group. They just had a track rental at Atco last night. I'm a member, but don't get to attend many events (full time work, part time PhD, and most events are at least 90 minutes away).

If you can get in touch with some members from your area, they'll be able to recommend a good shop or two. A reputable TR mechanic is invaluable. Let the shop do the heavy lifting; once the car is solid, you can do the smaller jobs yourself.

 

[GNDriven]

No doubt you should give Chris Hogeland a phone call. Then you can focus on getting the car ready for a great engine, while yours is getting built by a competent person, that you can count on. I would def change the body bushings and update the fuel system.

 

[Reggie West]

I would get in touch with Chris and then ask him if you can shadow him so you can learn as you go. I would not recommend doing a rebuild on a Buick with no experience whatsoever. There are too many details that will get overlooked and cost you a bunch more money than it should.

This is the classic mistake guys make on Buicks. They try to build one of these on the cheap and it ends up costing them 3 times as much to get it fixed right.

 

[CGASTON]

Yes to both questions big grin! I've built plenty of engines in my day, 20 years ago. Still have enough tools and knowledge to r and r engine and trans, but rather then buying all the required equipment to properly do it myself and then still mess up something, I'd rather have Nick Micale do it as he's close AND experienced with these engines. This ain't no small block chevy! Cheers

Call Nick, he has a 272 for sale!!!

 

[blackgn1]

Chris Hogeland also gets my vote. He's doing some work for me now. Couldn't deal with a nicer guy.

 

[Sabot15]

I would get in touch with Chris and then ask him if you can shadow him so you can learn as you go.

Now that would be absolutely awesome!

 

[we4Mateo]

I've learned so much being able to shadow my guy when he works on my car. I'm semi-disabled and need help with a lot of things others do not, so it's nice to have someone who lets me do that.