replacing factory 10 gauge wire did wonders

Very understandable brother.

My father used to warn me about becoming BSPD (Book Smart People Dumb). He told me there's no greater waste than becoming a person who has a wealth of knowledge, but has lost the ability to convey it in a way people can easily accept it. No one is beneath being taught, but there are plenty of people beneath being teachers.

Well said!

We are all just here to share information. Nobody knows everything. There are poeple who are better in certain areas than others. We have to all try and stay open minded and take all points into consideration.

You don't learn anything from knowing everything. Does that sound right? LOL!
 
Well i have used a thin set of brand new jumper cables to try and start my car they would not work a friend of mine let me use his that were twice as thick and guess what it started right up the thicker wire is better
 
Well i have used a thin set of brand new jumper cables to try and start my car they would not work a friend of mine let me use his that were twice as thick and guess what it started right up the thicker wire is better

apples and oranges
 
Well i have used a thin set of brand new jumper cables to try and start my car they would not work a friend of mine let me use his that were twice as thick and guess what it started right up the thicker wire is better

Thats quite an observation. :rolleyes:
 
I believe some are missing Richard's point in the video.

The point he's trying to make is that the stock charge wire is of sufficient gauge. He’s not saying you can’t go to a larger wire, but there’s no reason to do so. If you’re seeing a significant change in putting a larger wire between the alternator and the battery then the stock wire is damaged.
 
i just want to clarify a few things here!!! as to my readings they are from the scanmaster not the battery. also i never said i gained volts as they are saying in the video. what i said was that my volts didnt change as much as they did before with either wire the volts were initially 14.1 even when i changed the wire the volts stayed the same. THE BIG IMPROVEMENT WAS WHEN I RAN MY ASSESSORIES AT IDLE!!!!!! also the bigger amp user is the rear defroster which i stated using. when the gentleman applied the jumper cables to the battery even he stated the amp increase was tremendous!!!!! so in my test that is why the windows and moon roof didnt change in speed "going slower" because of the increase in amps and inturn the volts would not drop as much. BIGGER GROUND ALSO HELP AS MINE DID. so take this info and and the proven video and see if this is voodoo or not!!!! also PITTSBURGH KID I DIDNT ADD AN ADDITIONAL WIRE TO THIS SETUP I CUT THE ORIGINAL WIRE OFF AND RAN THE NEW ONE. I DONT DO HACK JOBS ON MY CAR.

Ya i know my post was directed towards the people who were just adding a wire from the alt to the battery. I think they read your post and got cunfused or lazy cause while yes it will essentially do the same thing it'll just make a mess and from the looks of your engine bay your like me and want everything just so.
 
Thats quite an observation. :rolleyes:

What did you just say?
What?
Just now, man. When you walked past, what'd you say?
About what?
You said, "Someone's tokin' some reefer."
No, I meant somewhere I smell some pot, you know? It was just an observation.
Oh, an observation, huh? Well who the hell are you, man? Isaac fcuking Newton?

Haha sorry I couldn't resist. I read your post and that scene just popped in my head.
 
When I was experiencing reduced voltage when sitting at idle at traffic light, I needed find out why. An alternator puts out about half the rated current at idle, so first I needed to determine a base line, then double that to determine alternator size. The wire I chose from the alternator then was appropriately sized.

Here is what I came up with to determine the current needed:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Average
Components . . . . . . . . . .Amp Draw . . . Selected item for draw
Headlights Low Beam . . . . . . 7.0 . . . . . 7.0
Headlights High Beam . . . . . . 9.0
Fog lamps . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.0
Brake Stop Lights . . . . . . . . 5.0 . . . . . 5.0
Taillights . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Marker Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 4.0 . . . . . 4.0
Backup Lamps . . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Turn Signals Lights . . . . . . . .4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Hazard Signal Lights . . . . . . .8.4
Front Clearance Lights . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Cab Dome Light . . . . . . . . . .2.0
Parking Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 0.5 . . . . .0.5
Instrument Lights . . . . . . . . 1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Instrument . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Ignition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Electric Wipers . . . . . . . . . . 6.1 . . . . . 6.1
Field Current - Alternator . . . .1.0 . . . . .1.0
Electric Fuel Pump . . . . . . . . 2.6 . . . . . 2.6
Electric Fan . . . . . . . . . . . . 17.0 . . . . 17.0
Electric Window . . . . . . . . . .7.0
AM/FM Radio . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0
Tape Deck & Aux Speakers . . .5.0 . . . . .5.0
Radio/Telephone . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Radar Detection . . . . . . . . . . 1.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - Low . . . .5.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - HIgh . . . 14.0
Air Conditioner - Low . . . . . . .9.0
Air Conditioner - High . . . . . . .18.0 . . . .18.0
Heated Mirrors . . . . . . . . . . . .9.0
Remote Control Mirrors . . . . . .2.0
Cigarette Lighter . . . . . . . . . .6.5

Totals . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172.9 . . . 79.0

The OEM 8 gage wire was noted elsewhere in this thread as good for 55 amps. I went with a larger gage wire and did see a reduce voltage drop from the alternator to the battery post, under a load on the alternator. I also made sure I used an adequately sized connector to carry the current, soldered the connectors to the wire and tinned the connectors with soldier to reduce oxidation (or corrosion as others have said) at the terminals.

The number one failure I have experienced in alternators is the diode closest to the output terminal that I suspect fails due to heat caused by corrosion and/or an undersized connector at that connection. I am also using the back cover from a 1996 or later CS144 alternator for high output applications due to the improved diode bridge and larger output terminal.

Therefore I make sure the wire from the alternator to the battery is sized properly from both the connector thickness and width plus wire gage used, then the prevention of resistance from corrosion.

Flame away lads . .
 
When I was experiencing reduced voltage when sitting at idle at traffic light, I needed find out why. An alternator puts out about half the rated current at idle, so first I needed to determine a base line, then double that to determine alternator size. The wire I chose from the alternator then was appropriately sized.

Here is what I came up with to determine the current needed:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Average
Components . . . . . . . . . .Amp Draw . . . Selected item for draw
Headlights Low Beam . . . . . . 7.0 . . . . . 7.0
Headlights High Beam . . . . . . 9.0
Fog lamps . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.0
Brake Stop Lights . . . . . . . . 5.0 . . . . . 5.0
Taillights . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Marker Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 4.0 . . . . . 4.0
Backup Lamps . . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Turn Signals Lights . . . . . . . .4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Hazard Signal Lights . . . . . . .8.4
Front Clearance Lights . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Cab Dome Light . . . . . . . . . .2.0
Parking Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 0.5 . . . . .0.5
Instrument Lights . . . . . . . . 1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Instrument . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Ignition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Electric Wipers . . . . . . . . . . 6.1 . . . . . 6.1
Field Current - Alternator . . . .1.0 . . . . .1.0
Electric Fuel Pump . . . . . . . . 2.6 . . . . . 2.6
Electric Fan . . . . . . . . . . . . 17.0 . . . . 17.0
Electric Window . . . . . . . . . .7.0
AM/FM Radio . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0
Tape Deck & Aux Speakers . . .5.0 . . . . .5.0
Radio/Telephone . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Radar Detection . . . . . . . . . . 1.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - Low . . . .5.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - HIgh . . . 14.0
Air Conditioner - Low . . . . . . .9.0
Air Conditioner - High . . . . . . .18.0 . . . .18.0
Heated Mirrors . . . . . . . . . . . .9.0
Remote Control Mirrors . . . . . .2.0
Cigarette Lighter . . . . . . . . . .6.5

Totals . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172.9 . . . 79.0

The OEM 8 gage wire was noted elsewhere in this thread as good for 55 amps. I went with a larger gage wire and did see a reduce voltage drop from the alternator to the battery post, under a load on the alternator. I also made sure I used an adequately sized connector to carry the current, soldered the connectors to the wire and tinned the connectors with soldier to reduce oxidation (or corrosion as others have said) at the terminals.

The number one failure I have experienced in alternators is the diode closest to the output terminal that I suspect fails due to heat caused by corrosion and/or an undersized connector at that connection. I am also using the back cover from a 1996 or later CS144 alternator for high output applications due to the improved diode bridge and larger output terminal.

Therefore I make sure the wire from the alternator to the battery is sized properly from both the connector thickness and width plus wire gage used, then the prevention of resistance from corrosion.

Flame away lads . .

Great info Loyd! :biggrin:
 
What did you just say?
What?
Just now, man. When you walked past, what'd you say?
About what?
You said, "Someone's tokin' some reefer."
No, I meant somewhere I smell some pot, you know? It was just an observation.
Oh, an observation, huh? Well who the hell are you, man? Isaac fcuking Newton?

Haha sorry I couldn't resist. I read your post and that scene just popped in my head.

i only came here for 2 things drink beer and kick some a$$. well it looks like were almost out of beer. LOL!!!
 
When I was experiencing reduced voltage when sitting at idle at traffic light, I needed find out why. An alternator puts out about half the rated current at idle, so first I needed to determine a base line, then double that to determine alternator size. The wire I chose from the alternator then was appropriately sized.

Here is what I came up with to determine the current needed:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Average
Components . . . . . . . . . .Amp Draw . . . Selected item for draw
Headlights Low Beam . . . . . . 7.0 . . . . . 7.0
Headlights High Beam . . . . . . 9.0
Fog lamps . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.0
Brake Stop Lights . . . . . . . . 5.0 . . . . . 5.0
Taillights . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Marker Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 4.0 . . . . . 4.0
Backup Lamps . . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Turn Signals Lights . . . . . . . .4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Hazard Signal Lights . . . . . . .8.4
Front Clearance Lights . . . . . 1.2 . . . . . 1.2
Cab Dome Light . . . . . . . . . .2.0
Parking Lights . . . . . . . . . . . 0.5 . . . . .0.5
Instrument Lights . . . . . . . . 1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Instrument . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0 . . . . . 1.0
Ignition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.2 . . . . . 4.2
Electric Wipers . . . . . . . . . . 6.1 . . . . . 6.1
Field Current - Alternator . . . .1.0 . . . . .1.0
Electric Fuel Pump . . . . . . . . 2.6 . . . . . 2.6
Electric Fan . . . . . . . . . . . . 17.0 . . . . 17.0
Electric Window . . . . . . . . . .7.0
AM/FM Radio . . . . . . . . . . . .1.0
Tape Deck & Aux Speakers . . .5.0 . . . . .5.0
Radio/Telephone . . . . . . . . . .4.0
Radar Detection . . . . . . . . . . 1.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - Low . . . .5.0
Heater/Defrost Fan - HIgh . . . 14.0
Air Conditioner - Low . . . . . . .9.0
Air Conditioner - High . . . . . . .18.0 . . . .18.0
Heated Mirrors . . . . . . . . . . . .9.0
Remote Control Mirrors . . . . . .2.0
Cigarette Lighter . . . . . . . . . .6.5

Totals . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172.9 . . . 79.0

The OEM 8 gage wire was noted elsewhere in this thread as good for 55 amps. I went with a larger gage wire and did see a reduce voltage drop from the alternator to the battery post, under a load on the alternator. I also made sure I used an adequately sized connector to carry the current, soldered the connectors to the wire and tinned the connectors with soldier to reduce oxidation (or corrosion as others have said) at the terminals.

The number one failure I have experienced in alternators is the diode closest to the output terminal that I suspect fails due to heat caused by corrosion and/or an undersized connector at that connection. I am also using the back cover from a 1996 or later CS144 alternator for high output applications due to the improved diode bridge and larger output terminal.

Therefore I make sure the wire from the alternator to the battery is sized properly from both the connector thickness and width plus wire gage used, then the prevention of resistance from corrosion.

Flame away lads . .


That exactly what i was getting at in my post, this is the proper way to find out what size or gage wire you need for your application, not to say bigger wont hurt.:wink:
 
Pictures of the Big Three as I did it. Remember the car is one big ass circuit, so make sure you match the gauge (0/1, 4, etc.) across all three (in this particular mod) if you don't you will seriously overheat the smallest gauge wire out of the three (don't ask me how I know this :redface:) The circuit will only be as powerful as it's weakest link.

At idle, my car fluctuates between 14.1-14.4 volts steady dropping only to 13.7-14 steady when at full load (7 gauges, alky, dual fans, V1, dual amp 1000 watt/60amp system pumping, ipod, scanmaster, upgraded headlights, and all the normal stuff). No headlight flickering, no fuel pump starving, no signs of strain at all. It was a big change for me from when I first installed my dual fans (as my initial electrical related mod) and the voltage would drop from 13.4-5 at idle and go down to 12.8-13.1 when they turned on.

The pictures show the battery to the relocation harness. The battery to the alternator, the block to the frame, and the battery negative to the frame using thick and juicy 0/1 ga wire.
 

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What did you just say?
What?
Just now, man. When you walked past, what'd you say?
About what?
You said, "Someone's tokin' some reefer."
No, I meant somewhere I smell some pot, you know? It was just an observation.
Oh, an observation, huh? Well who the hell are you, man? Isaac fcuking Newton?

Haha sorry I couldn't resist. I read your post and that scene just popped in my head.

Dazed and Confused, loved that movie!
 
Pictures of the Big Three as I did it. Remember the car is one big ass circuit, so make sure you match the gauge (0/1, 4, etc.) across all three (in this particular mod) if you don't you will seriously overheat the smallest gauge wire out of the three (don't ask me how I know this :redface:) The circuit will only be as powerful as it's weakest link.

At idle, my car fluctuates between 14.1-14.4 volts steady dropping only to 13.7-14 steady when at full load (7 gauges, alky, dual fans, V1, dual amp 1000 watt/60amp system pumping, ipod, scanmaster, upgraded headlights, and all the normal stuff). No headlight flickering, no fuel pump starving, no signs of strain at all. It was a big change for me from when I first installed my dual fans (as my initial electrical related mod) and the voltage would drop from 13.4-5 at idle and go down to 12.8-13.1 when they turned on.

The pictures show the battery to the relocation harness. The battery to the alternator, the block to the frame, and the battery negative to the frame using thick and juicy 0/1 ga wire.
very nice job and those numbers are pretty much the same as mine
 
I got into the turbo Regal wiring in general as a result of watching my voltage drop in the course of a quarter mile run on a data log. I was alarmed to see the voltage drop to the high 11s or low 12s. Why I was so concerned was a feature in the FAST XFI that is not programmable shown in the illustration below taken from the FAST installation/programming manual:

Injector_opening_vs_battery_curve.jpg


In short the FAST system adds a percentage to the injector pulse when it senses a lower voltage. Running E-85 in that particular car with larger injectors, a small percentage here is a big deal. That lead me to figure out where my losses were.

To measure the drop in the OEM 8 gage wire, between the alternator and battery, I measured the voltage across this 6 ft. length of wire. With the normal idling load and electric fan running (I have the resistor bypassed so it it either on or off), I measured 2 tenths of a volt between the battery post and the alternator post. Measuring the voltage at each point corresponded to the loss. There was 14.7 volts at the alternator post and 14.5 volts at the battery. This amount of resistance was a little high according to the calculator at the bottom of the link: American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies. Even after cleaning and tinning the terminals I saw 1 tenth of a volt.

While reading this voltage at the battery the FAST XFI dashboard was reading in the low 13s. About this time in a thread on this board, I discovered that flash version 5.6 of the XFI read the input voltage to the computer 6 tenths of a volt low. Cal Hartline came to the rescue with beta flash 5.7 that corrected that problem.

With the flash installed the voltage read almost an even volt below the battery voltage. I gained almost a tenth by changing the 8 gage wire to 6 gage reducing the voltage drop across that wire taking my battery voltage closer to the alternator output voltage. Small increment to some, but important to the total goal I was trying for. (This is not the car that I already upgraded this wire and alternator to help in the idling voltage at night in the rain on the way home from a cruise night with the AC on)

Then I decided to hot wire terminal F of the 437 connector (located under the glove box, near the ECM). I had earlier installed Caspers fusible link relocation kit, so from the terminal block added a 10 gage wire (I plan to add other things so maybe over sized) to a relay behind the glove box. Used the original wire to terminal F from the ignition switch to trigger the relay and the output of the relay to now supply power to the computer and as a bonus the CCCI module through terminal F of connector 437.

The results were the voltage at the computer now read very close to the voltage output at the alternator, reducing the variation imposed by FAST to the injector pulse width for a perceived low voltage. The next step is to use a second relay I installed to supply the fuel injector harness directly, which may help a little as I'm using low impedance injectors.

You can expect a little voltage loss per connector, so figuring all the connectors, ignition switch, fuses, fusible links etc in the circuit no wonder anybody monitoring the voltage at the ECM is seeing a low voltage. All the little steps add up.

Just a few more things to add to the wish list when I have John Spina make up my custom wiring harness for this car.
 
I believe some are missing Richard's point in the video.

The point he's trying to make is that the stock charge wire is of sufficient gauge. He’s not saying you can’t go to a larger wire, but there’s no reason to do so. If you’re seeing a significant change in putting a larger wire between the alternator and the battery then the stock wire is damaged.

the wire is not damaged but i am sure some are most of all it is undersized for todays upgrades that we are adding on day by day. with the higher electrical demand at idle as well as wot its not big enough. for a stock car i am sure its fine
 
I believe some are missing Richard's point in the video.

The point he's trying to make is that the stock charge wire is of sufficient gauge. He’s not saying you can’t go to a larger wire, but there’s no reason to do so. If you’re seeing a significant change in putting a larger wire between the alternator and the battery then the stock wire is damaged.

IMO, I think he missed the point of what people where trying to accomplish on this thread. The scope of the video is sufficiently narrow as to prove his point, sure, but IMO it really does not have much to do with what us regular folk were trying to say regarding the advantages of beefing up one's ancient wiring.
 
...Then I decided to hot wire terminal F of the 437 connector (located under the glove box, near the ECM). I had earlier installed Caspers fusible link relocation kit, so from the terminal block added a 10 gage wire (I plan to add other things so maybe over sized) to a relay behind the glove box. Used the original wire to terminal F from the ignition switch to trigger the relay and the output of the relay to now supply power to the computer and as a bonus the CCCI module through terminal F of connector 437...

This is great info. I like this idea in particular.

Thanks!
 
I got into the turbo Regal wiring in general as a result of watching my voltage drop in the course of a quarter mile run on a data log. I was alarmed to see the voltage drop to the high 11s or low 12s. Why I was so concerned was a feature in the FAST XFI that is not programmable shown in the illustration below taken from the FAST installation/programming manual:

Injector_opening_vs_battery_curve.jpg


In short the FAST system adds a percentage to the injector pulse when it senses a lower voltage. Running E-85 in that particular car with larger injectors, a small percentage here is a big deal. That lead me to figure out where my losses were.

To measure the drop in the OEM 8 gage wire, between the alternator and battery, I measured the voltage across this 6 ft. length of wire. With the normal idling load and electric fan running (I have the resistor bypassed so it it either on or off), I measured 2 tenths of a volt between the battery post and the alternator post. Measuring the voltage at each point corresponded to the loss. There was 14.7 volts at the alternator post and 14.5 volts at the battery. This amount of resistance was a little high according to the calculator at the bottom of the link: American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies. Even after cleaning and tinning the terminals I saw 1 tenth of a volt.

While reading this voltage at the battery the FAST XFI dashboard was reading in the low 13s. About this time in a thread on this board, I discovered that flash version 5.6 of the XFI read the input voltage to the computer 6 tenths of a volt low. Cal Hartline came to the rescue with beta flash 5.7 that corrected that problem.

With the flash installed the voltage read almost an even volt below the battery voltage. I gained almost a tenth by changing the 8 gage wire to 6 gage reducing the voltage drop across that wire taking my battery voltage closer to the alternator output voltage. Small increment to some, but important to the total goal I was trying for. (This is not the car that I already upgraded this wire and alternator to help in the idling voltage at night in the rain on the way home from a cruise night with the AC on)

Then I decided to hot wire terminal F of the 437 connector (located under the glove box, near the ECM). I had earlier installed Caspers fusible link relocation kit, so from the terminal block added a 10 gage wire (I plan to add other things so maybe over sized) to a relay behind the glove box. Used the original wire to terminal F from the ignition switch to trigger the relay and the output of the relay to now supply power to the computer and as a bonus the CCCI module through terminal F of connector 437.

The results were the voltage at the computer now read very close to the voltage output at the alternator, reducing the variation imposed by FAST to the injector pulse width for a perceived low voltage. The next step is to use a second relay I installed to supply the fuel injector harness directly, which may help a little as I'm using low impedance injectors.

You can expect a little voltage loss per connector, so figuring all the connectors, ignition switch, fuses, fusible links etc in the circuit no wonder anybody monitoring the voltage at the ECM is seeing a low voltage. All the little steps add up.

Just a few more things to add to the wish list when I have John Spina make up my custom wiring harness for this car.
awesome thinking!! now did this procedure change the voltage that the scanmaster and powerlogger read from?
 
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