replacing factory 10 gauge wire did wonders

[Old Guy Dave]

Damn Rich, your posts are a challenge to read. Thanks for the info though..

Your right.... It's very good info ... And a smart man with a great Vocabulary....politician. Or Lawyer.......no offense meant here.... He makes good point...

 

[TurboDave]

Sure glad to see Richard chime in with the voice of reason!!!

The one thing I've learned over the years is that if you doubt anything Richard teaches us about Turbo Regals, then there's a 99.9% chance you're wrong !!

As a 30+ year electronics technician, I've still learned so many things from Richard, And I thought I had a pretty good handle on these Turbo Regals, but have learned more from Richard in the last several years than all my 25 years of working on them!!

 

[Old Guy Dave]

Sure glad to see Richard chime in with the voice of reason!!!

The one thing I've learned over the years is that if you doubt anything Richard teaches us about Turbo Regals, then there's a 99.9% chance you're wrong !!

As a 30+ year electronics technician, I've still learned so many things from Richard, And I thought I had a pretty good handle on these Turbo Regals, but have learned more from Richard in the last several years than all my 25 years of working on them!!

 

[Old Guy Dave]

There is a lot a wonderful and very helpful information on this website. And as a fellow with some years on me....I have seen the advent of all types of new technology. And I know that I can always learn from other people. If you just listen to what they have to say. But I've also Learned that there is a lot of misinformation out there from all of this new technology we have at our disposal. So it is nice to hear when someone is willing to share quality information with us and teach us things

 

[achalmersman]

i don't claim to know everything either but if you are disagreeing with me about electricity there is almost virtually zero chance you are right................................RC

I've been keeping up with this thread with utter amusement. I have refrained from partaking but I had to read this statement about 10 times. I think its one of the best statements I've ever read and sounds like something I would want to say but not have the stones to do so! Anyway, excellent posts. Thanks

 

[bison]

there are quite a few fusible links throughout the harness a few are in the dash wiring where they are very hard to access these rarely fail or GM would not have put them in such a location the main ones are a few inches from the starter Positive terminal on the three red wires that lead to the wiring harness at the rear of the engine don't worry about them they are either good or bad almost all the wiring in the car is fed from these links and if EITHER of them has failed you will have no doubts LOTS of things will not be working think of them as air bags for electricity air bags only fail if you have an accident that you are not likely to drive away from or if someone that doesn't know what he is doing goes poking under the dash into the wiring same with the fusible links i have worked on many hundreds of GN's over the last couple decades and a problem with these is extremely rare unless some electrical genius like some of the gurus on this thread have been piddling around the car if these links worry you I would suggest that you worry more about godzilla eating your car since they both have about the same chance of happening and this silly thread is a great example of the downside of the internet as a source of information lots of misinformed people posting thoughts as if they have more than a clue what they are typing about EXAMPLE # ONE we have some that doubt Ohms law is it written in the constitution? no but it is a physical law that some very smart men have discovered that all relevant forces in the known universe adhere to truly knowledgeable people know that when something doesn't seem to obey it that their observation is somehow flawed case in point someone mentioned that they measured a wire and the drop did not agree with a voltage drop chart odds are that in their flawed analysis they failed to use a Kelvin style attachment to the wire under test and left the connectors in the equation slogn stated it well when he said "the devil is always in the connections" think about it we have technically challenged folks measuring voltage drops (some in the tenths of a volt) sometimes with soldered connections most voltage drop charts relate to copper or aluminum since those metals are the most practical to use from a cost/performance standpoint if low resistance is the goal solder is NOT a good conductor lead, tin and the other things we find in solder and some connectors can create a totally inaccurate measurement when trying to compare actual measurements to a wire resistance chart from a "good connection" standpoint there is no better connection than a "properly done high pressure crimp" where the metal is cold flowed solder is a substitute connection where a good mechanical connection is not practical or cost effective the research on this has been substantiated over and over again from the early days of the telephone and electrical power industries to the work done at NASA in the 60's to this day there is no electrical connection that surpasses a cold fused crimp for strength or conductivity try telling this to a car audio installer and his head will explode EXAMPLE # TWO someone mentioned the "skin effect" as a possible contributor to error since we are concerned with automobile applications here i think it is safe to assume that we are concerned with DC and not AC since skin effect only occurs with alternating current (the higher the frequency the more the affect) and not with DC this seems like a silly thing to even mention EXAMPLE#THREE someone mentioned that bigger wires helped ease the load on the alternator WOW! where do i even start with this one? if you want to make things easy for your alternator you need to put the smallest wire you can put on it that doesn't melt now i'm not saying thats going to make your electrical accessories work better but it will sure take a load off your alternators back a smaller wire (ie higher resistance) isolates the alternator from the load and serves to limit the current the alternator can produce at any given voltage output not a good idea but it illustrates the genius in that line of thought EXAMPLE# FOUR someone added up all the fuse sizes in the fuse box and somehow came to the conclusion that a nominal load in a GN could reach into the 170 amp range i once put a moderately modded GN with lots of accessories on a chassis dyno (to do this test on the street would have been impractical) and did measurements to see what kind of load really existed since the car was stationary i could do what was impractical when it was moving i had several people operate virtually every accessory while the car was running at 65 miles an hour coolant fan, high beams, wipers, AC blower, power seats, CD player with large amp, XP pump, window defogger, emergency flashers, power windows ect etc it was virtually impossible to exceed 105 amps no matter how hard we tried a simple understanding of how fuses work and how engineers select them for use in a circuit would easily clear up this silly notion need something to ponder? go to the fuse/breaker box in your house add up all the fuses and or breakers then check what size service you have just did my house for kicks total breaker amperage not counting the 200 amp main = 635 amps yet i have a 200 amp main breaker and service and the power company wire is appropriate for 200 amps i have lived in this house for 32 years with no electrical issues should i call the power company and recommend that they could ease the load on their nuclear plant if they ran wire sized for 600 amps to my house ??? from the comments on this ridiculous thread i could come up with a dozen more exampled of electrical misunderstandings/voodoo but i will leave things as is only to make a point the great thing about electricity is that is a useful servant for virtually all of us no matter if it is understood or not one thing is for sure there is virtually NOTHING about it that is not understood by some i don't claim to know everything either but if you are disagreeing with me about electricity there is almost virtually zero chance you are right................................RC

Id like to see that amperage test with one of your sound systems on the stock alternator . Thanks for clarifying the bad information Richard. This is one of those threads where I start to type and hit cancel because no matter what I post it's going to piss someone off .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TurboDave]

Id like to see that amperage test with one of your sound systems on the stock alternator . Thanks for clarifying the bad information Richard. This is one of those threads where I start to type and hit cancel because no matter what I post it's going to piss someone off .


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I know what you mean!! I've been following this thread on and off over the last couple years with a great amount of amusement! I've wanted to comment but felt the same way you do. No good would come from trying to correct hard core voodoo'isms!

 

[A2000RICH]

Id like to see that amperage test with one of your sound systems on the stock alternator . Thanks for clarifying the bad information Richard. This is one of those threads where I start to type and hit cancel because no matter what I post it's going to piss someone off .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

actually i did just that quite a few years ago........... it was for an article in a national magazine......... i used to do technical articles and tests for several mags so i am not sure just which one it was...........i will dig it up.......i think it was "car stereo review"........the facts puzzled most installers............if you think racers are confused with physics you should get to know car audio guys.........most of them don't understand some things when its spelled out for them..........the kicker is that the duty cycle of music is less than 15-20%..........so an amp that can draw 200 amps at full power producing test signals only actually consumes about 20 amps on a long term basis................it takes a really monster amp (well in excess of 1 KW) to draw more power over a given amount of time than the cooling fan on a turbo regal............in the early 90's i competed in international competitions in the unlimited pro class with a GN with a 3.5 KW system powered by a 160 amp alternator and a single battery...........was totally undefeated for the 3 years i competed and never ran out of power............i was always surrounded by opponents with trunks filled with batteries and multiple alternators under the hood.............

 

[salvageV6]

So how many people out there own hydraulic or professional production crimp tools?

 

[turbo nasty]

Lol

 

[turbo nasty]

In all seriousness, thanks Richard for clarifying this stuff.

 

[RunninShine231]

GREAT THREAD! Extremely informative. As a grease monkey by trade be amazed how ohms law get soo misconstrued. Our trade suffers from too many parts changers and not enough electricians. Clean and tight connections go a long way. Thanks again everyone for a Great thread!

 

[cruzn57]

So how many people out there own hydraulic or professional production crimp tools?

I do !

why the diversion?

 

[bpman1234]

I just read this whole thread because I was having voltage issues so all I did was buy a new alternator and I had already cleaned all my ground wires and upgraded some of them. but my problem was that went i installed my dual fans I only put a relay on one of the them. now is all good I have two amps they're both JL audio amps. i am getting 13.7 12.5 at the sm 14.7 at the battery when i go to the fuse box i get 13.7 on most of the fuses but i get 14.7 on 1 fuse.the only thing i really did was make sure i had good and clean connections upgraded some ground wires and added some ground wires all is good now thanks for the info guys.

Sent from my LG-MS910

 

[salvageV6]

Harbor freight crimper or Radio shack 40 watt iron, you make the call.

Diversion? This whole thread is a diversion.

 

[SloGN]

So how many people out there own hydraulic or professional production crimp tools?

Well the solution is to then use solder or tin the connector to the wire.. yes it does have a tad bit of Resistance/voltage drop across it .. compared to a really good crimp...

but those will be very very small.....might need a better volt meter to really measure it correctly as most voltage meters have errors when trying to measure those...


Like I posted before.. A bad connection is the root of all evil..

 

[salvageV6]

Yup.

Just pointing out the fine print.

It doesn't change any electrical or electronic facts whatsoever.

 

[Dave Dunbar]

Check the red battery terminal. The corrosion hides inside. "Replacing factory 10 gauge wire did wonders" bypasses the corrosion.
My terminal looked good, but on closer inspection, it was slightly swollen. You wouldn't believe what was inside.
I'm with the electrical engineers on this one. Great to have them!!!

 

[TurboBob]

if you are disagreeing with me about electricity there is almost virtually zero chance you are right................................RC

You can take that to the bank!

 

[achalmersman]

Amps

If you have one bad cell in a FULLY charged battery the starter will not turn the engine over. Why because it lacks the amps (power).

This statement is also not exactly accurate.

First off amps by itself does not = power.

Second off, your analogy of a bad cell with a fully charged battery does not match my experiences.

A battery that has one bad cell but is otherwise in "good" shape and charged will measure 10.5v as each cell is 2.1v. Many times (GM vehicles) I have seen vehicles start on a battery with a bad cell. The other cells are fully charged and help provide enough current to overcome the low voltage. The starting amperage is much higher since the voltage is lower, but the other 5 cells are capable of putting out, and the car starts. To sum up: Car started with a BAD battery measuring 10.5v

Take the same car with a GOOD battery that is discharged. Say it measures 11.8-12.0v. Good chance the car won't start. To sum up: Good battery, higher voltage, car didn't start because the current capability of the battery is depleted.