Safe alcohol

[John Purdom]

not that operater error, or tunning didn't cause big time engine failures, but majority of rebuilds comming through the shop, like 9 out of 10 are alchy based motors that go boom! There is no cheap way for h.p. and I'm willing to bet my car would run high tens on 93 pump gas alone.

Interesting. What percantage of those would be attributed to, say, the driver running the system out of alcohol, and what percentage would you attribute to a system failure?

 

[broke1]

Interesting. What percantage of those would be attributed to, say, the driver running the system out of alcohol, and what percentage would you attribute to a system failure?

Man,when you tune the **** on the edge and have a "hiccup",I dont care if youre running race gas or alky,****s gonna let go.

Ill bet more people have messed their engine up when a 2nd fuel pump didnt cut on....Plus there are ALOT of alky users out there and were not hearing of things leting go until people start getting greedy with the boost and timing,you know,just like with race gas...

Only big problem with alky or any other mod on these cars is everyone thinks they are a "tuner"

If I havent lost anything due to alky,rest assured its pretty idiot proof if you follow Julio's advice

 

[Red Regal T]

If I havent lost anything due to alky,rest assured its pretty idiot proof

Ain't that the truth........and me running DIY for 5 years without a problem caused by alky. Some people are looking for guarantees.

Besides death and taxes, there ain't no guarantees in life.

 

[John Purdom]

Ain't that the truth........and me running DIY for 5 years without a problem caused by alky. Some people are looking for guarantees.

Besides death and taxes, there ain't no guarantees in life.

Whoo boy, now that was insightful. Thank you for putting down your banjo long enough to type that. You think I would have started with a nearly twenty year old turbo Buick if I was looking for guarantees? Why is having the best possible understanding of any system on your car asking for a guarantee? You know, in the back of each month's Flying magazine, they list the latest accident reports from the FAA. Flying includes these reports and pilots read them because they want to know as much as possible about preventing repetition of the same mistake/problem. If you give that a moment's thought the next time you're on a jet at 30,000 ft, you might decide that's not a bad thing. I'm hoping my pilot has asked all the hard questions and doesn't subsrcibe to the "they ain't no guarantees in life" therum. You'll have to forgive this ignorant rookie if I would like to apply the same logic to the care of my car. And before you cut me to shreads with more of your scathing, eyerolling narratives, I know a turbo Buick ain't no aereoplane, it's a cawr. Jeez, nevermind.

 

[Red Regal T]

Why is having the best possible understanding of any system on your car asking for a guarantee?

LOL! Though many would like it to be, alky injection just ain't rocket science. Right D-man?

Always understand........... anytime you're running 28lbs of boost, you're pushing the envelope.

 

[Razor]

You think I would have started with a nearly twenty year old turbo Buick if I was looking for guarantees?

Exactly.

 

[John Purdom]

Ok guys. I get it. I pays my money and I takes my chances.
According to John's many posts on the subject, that's where I made my first mistake. I payed good money for what I believed to be a well engineered and tested sytem, when, for something as simplistic as alcohol injection, I should have built it myself. That is right, isn't it? Julio??

Exactly....

 

[bruce]

If you're relying heavily on alky and lose it, then your going to hit the Knock Sensor, and back the timing up about 12d. If that's not enough to get your attention well, then all the pinging after that, should, if that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what would.

Maybe an audible Knock Sensor, might be something to think of.

Not to mention that with EFI, there's always answers in changing the code.

 

[bruce]

Then we work on how to shut things down. All the sensors on the car when killed.. kill fuel.. cuasing a lean condition. Nothing on the ecm cuts spark..

Killing fuel completely, isn't the same as going lean, it goes into a non-combustible condition.

The RPM limiter, cuts spark in a controlled fashion.

For today's hint, us an un-used input like the P/S, and then use the toggling of that line to trigger a fuel intermittent cut, or spark intermittent cut. You could use a pressure switch on the nozzle line as a possible indicator. You could even pull fuel to use more alky when the akly is one, so that if the alky fails, you just default to the original level of gas only. Obviously, code changes are necessary to accomplice these items.

But, I don't run 9s.......

 

[Razor]

Not correct at all.

You asked a question on this forum, I answered it in a non-bias way.

The search function does a lot of good when someone is making a choice. You obviously made yours already. What can I say. And I consider to have more experience in this particular matter than most. A little more than John

If you havent noticed my kits is the "kit" to put on forced induction Corvette's. Which have a lot more tied into their motors than a fully built Stage II Buick would. That should of let you know that reliability is the key. But these are not Buick engines.. and .. not of particular interest to this board.

If someone says theyre opinion.. what can I say. It is just that. Just like the comment by twin 93 svt.. he stated his shop seen 9 out of 10 blown motors by alcohol failures. Ask him bout Surej's car?

Dont know how you all of a sudden got mad at me. Matter fact your reply to my post was "Points well taken. Thanks". Then I see you post in General that you ruffled my feathers..

I guess I try and answer a question and get in trouble. :frown:

 

[broke1]

Ok guys. I get it. I pays my money and I takes my chances.
According to John's many posts on the subject, that's where I made my first mistake. I payed good money for what I believed to be a well engineered and tested sytem, when, for something as simplistic as alcohol injection, I should have built it myself. That is right, isn't it? Julio??

Exactly....

No offence to John but hes cheap as hell and a major DIY-er(plus hes friends with Julio to help him tune that DIY system)....I still laugh about his way to stop T Tops leaks forever

Pre packaged kits are for people like me who want a proven product with minimal hassle and great customer support if anything goes wrong or you have any questions....Julio spent alot of time building a better mousetrap.

And I did try a DIY kit on another turbo car I had,for the life of me I couldnt get rid of the bog when the alky hit.Thats why I bought 2 of Julio's kits and am looking for a 3rd if he can make me one

 

[Red Regal T]

And I consider to have more experience in this particular matter than most. A little more than John

Boy.........you know how to make a guy feel really bad.

 

[Red Regal T]

No offence to John but hes cheap as hell and a major DIY-er(plus hes friends with Julio to help him tune that DIY system)....I still laugh about his way to stop T Tops leaks forever

Flattery will get you nowhere!

 

[Razor]

Killing fuel completely, isn't the same as going lean, it goes into a non-combustible condition.

The RPM limiter, cuts spark in a controlled fashion.

For today's hint, us an un-used input like the P/S, and then use the toggling of that line to trigger a fuel intermittent cut, or spark intermittent cut. You could use a pressure switch on the nozzle line as a possible indicator. You could even pull fuel to use more alky when the akly is one, so that if the alky fails, you just default to the original level of gas only. Obviously, code changes are necessary to accomplice these items.

But, I don't run 9s.......

I asked this question to Bob Bailey, Eric Marshall, and Steve Yaklin about 2 years ago. Trying to interrupt MAF, Speed, RPM, etc all cut fuel. And there was no line I could splice that would create the bring it down to safety mode..

It is why I took out my first HG on a tranny flare from 2-3 at 28 PSI when the motor hit 6200 RPM's and cut fuel. Fix.. Eric after that programmed all my chips without rev limiters. And his chips now are done this way.

And as a general thing that applies to all chips.. thats when we get into trouble. In case of the Extender, ME-r. Red's, etc.. chip based would be nice.. need to get the chip guys involved in this.. and maybe an option.. but beyond anything I can do externally.

Great points.. now lets say the parameters are 255 GM on the MAF and 100 PSI pressure on the switch.. leave things alone? Only issue I see with that is if the motor is tuned to run at 150 PSI pressure, and it is run on the edge of knock with 150 PSI.. then 100 PSI as a switch setting wouldnt be enough. As knock would ensue if the pressure werent there..

Steve had a great thought which was to do a differential pressure setup. Tho I dont know how to incorporate in universally. whereas boost vs alky pressure were to be tracked.. and if one came down.. shut'r down.

Hit me back Bruce..

 

[broke1]

Flattery will get you nowhere!

Cmon John,you already make the better turbo saver,we cant have your head getting too big

 

[Razor]

Boy.........you know how to make a guy feel really bad.

John, make you feel bad... nahhh.. your skin is way too tough and old

 

[bruce]

I asked this question to Bob Bailey, Eric Marshall, and Steve Yaklin about 2 years ago. Trying to interrupt MAF, Speed, RPM, etc all cut fuel. And there was no line I could splice that would create the bring it down to safety mode..

And as a general thing that applies to all chips.. thats when we get into trouble. In case of the Extender, ME-r. Red's, etc.. chip based would be nice.. need to get the chip guys involved in this.. and maybe an option.. but beyond anything I can do externally.

Steve had a great thought which was to do a differential pressure setup. Tho I dont know how to incorporate in universally. whereas boost vs alky pressure were to be tracked.. and if one came down.. shut'r down.

Line of code?, or do you mean a line as in wire?.

You could toggle the ESC line, to hit full retard on the timing.
Try, putting a pressure guage on the discharge side of the pump, and see if when the pump is dry, what the reading is.
Or you could use a simple logic comparator on the O2 so if the O2 dropped under .6v it would toggle the ESC line.
Then have Eric or Bob up the max retard to 15d.

It still would be *better* being a little more sophisticated and cutting the injector constant to allow using all the alky the motor liked. and then being able to change back to just the gas setting if the alky failed. Maybe turn the SES light on if there was a problem.

 

[INEEDAGN]

Why not think up a way to vent the boost in case of a problem? Some sort of boost controller that opens the wastegate if the alky malfunctions, or some sort of BOV. I realize that getting pressure to the wastegate/bov hose in a hurry could be very tricky, but I'd bet it can be done. I'm by no means an expert on what it takes to do something like this, I'm simply throwing it out for discussion. I'll let the geniuses think it through.

If the engine can stay running, and producing power for the accessories and oil for the turbo, I think that would be a better option. If you leave it in gear it will still be turning for awhile, but probably not nearly as long as most people would like.

 

[DR BOOST]

not that operater error, or tunning didn't cause big time engine failures, but majority of rebuilds comming through the shop, like 9 out of 10 are alchy based motors that go boom! There is no cheap way for h.p. and I'm willing to bet my car would run high tens on 93 pump gas alone.

shame on you

 

[Razor]

shame on you

Spoken by the Peoples Champion :wink: