shift quality issues with fresh 200-4R, ideas? warning: long post

[tmoble]

Hi,

My Name is Tom Mobley, I'm a mod over at chevelles.com, ran across Bruce over there a year or so ago.

I have a 70 Chevelle, 406 roller cam, Dart iron heads, etc., daily driver, that's a small roller. it now has 3.73 posi and fresh 200-4R. I know a guy who has a Buick-only wrecking yard, snagged a 87 BRF from him as a good used tranny. When I got it home it had a lot of stuff in the pan but I cleaned it up and installed it. It wouldn't hardly shift at all, appeared to be shifting on the governer. I think the the TV piston or whatever you call is was stuck. I ended up taking the car to the guy, he pulled the tranny ans sent it to a shop he deals with to be rebuilt. The guy supposedly knows how to rebuild a 200-4R, he's done a number of them for my buddy.

Problem:

When they gave me the car back it acted like the cable was too tight. Shifted late and hard, had to take my foot off the gas to get it to shift into OD. After a couple weeks of this I took it back to the buddy, we went for an extended test drive and fiddled with the cable. Ended up loosening it about 5-6 notches. Tranny is then much better overall, but the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are sloppy. It does go into OD at about 40 -45 with light throttle. I can't stand the 1-2 shift so I tightened up the cable one notch and it's better, but now I have to take my foot off the gas to get it to shift into OD in a timely fashion. I should mention that this car has a Q-jet carb with the right throttle arm and bracket setup.

What to do? There's a slight flare in the 1-2 shift and occasionally a little flare in the 2-3 shift. I'm normally a pretty light-footed driver, soccer moms drive by me all the time. If I tighten up the cable some more it will fix the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, but then I'll be stuck shifting into OD with my foot like before. Now, if I stomp it it goes too full-boogie mode just fine.

Seems like something is goofed up in the relationship between the line pressure and the throttle pressure, something that goes deeper than the cable adjustment.

Anybody got any bright ideas? Personally, I think my buddy and his buddy with the tranny shop are tapped out. I don't really want to go back to them, doubt if they can help much.

Tom

 

[Razor]

I had a similar problem using an art car shift kit..whereas if you kept your foot with the same pressure it would shift at lets say 2200 1-2,2-3,but when it got to do the shift from 3-4 it would hang to about 3k before shifting..unless I lifted a slight bit.

There is a spring in the valve body that controls this..And you may encounter that the valve body is now 16 years old..springs are not what they were..

Do a search under 3-4 shift..

 

[chris718]

sounds like the vaklve body and governor arent a matched set .check this .if they are ,adjust the cable to where the i /2 and 2/3 are good and then remove 1 coil at a time off the 3/4 shift valve spring to get the od shift where you want it .if you need more help call chris at www.ckperformance.com 7186264315.

 

[tmoble]

Thanks, guys. sounds like both of you are agreeing more or less. If I do the 3-4 spring thing, what does it involve? I'm assuming I'll have to drop the pan each time, will I also have to drop the valve body? Is there a diagram or pics online somewhere to go by? Dropping the pan doesn't bother me, dropping the VB does. a little.

If I'm in there, how can I identify that it's really a BRF VB still in there? Is the code stamped into the VB somewhere?

Cutting coils off springs makes them stronger, is that what's wanted here? It also reduces the preload if they're installed with any.

They guy that built it must have some killer vat deal. The thing was really nasty on the outside, I cleaned it up with a high pressure washer and chemicals, didn't really help that much. When I get under there now it literally looks like a new out of the crate tranny.

Tom

 

[77 cruiser]

Hi. Tom

Here`s a diagram.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/valvebody.html

To get at the spring you`ll have to take the VB off to get the roll pin out that holds it in, as they`re flared out on end so they`ll only move one way. BTW you might want to get an ATSG service manual or a GM service Manual for check ball location. There`s an ID on the VB but it is like a dye or ink stamp near the manual shift valve pink or yellow I think. If still legible will be the code.

Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[tmoble]

I've orked on TH400s and a couple TH350s, but many years ago. How much stuff falls out when you drop the VB on one of these? Will I be scared?

Tom

 

[chris718]

if the trans was just done it should be easy . the valvebody and three balls will come out .if you r slick you can set up the roll pin so it can be removed w/out droppin the valve body a 2nd time .removing coils allows the gov oil to slide the valve at a lower vehicle speed into 4th gear .call us if u need help www.ck[performance.com

 

[tmoble]

Thanks for taking time to reply. Does anybody know where there's a picture online that shows the locations of the the three check balls? I looked at that diagram linked above, I'm not real sure I can find the right spots from it.

There's a couple books mentioned above, are these something I can lay hands on? Maybe at a public library?

Thanks, Tom

 

[tmoble]

Chris, looking at your note up above, you say to check if the VB and governor are a matched pair? How do I do this? Do they have matching paint color codes or what?

Tom

 

[77 cruiser]

GM service manual

Tom go to your friendly GM dealer and ask if you can borrow a service manual for a mid 80`s G body I believe they all used 200-r4`s.

Here`s a link to the gov. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/governor.jpg

Jim

 

[tmoble]

Thanks for the link to that pic of the governor, I can use that.

That manual, the dealerships here in Phoenix are set up to keep people away from the service dept, you can't just walk out there and ask somebody for something. Is this something I could ask for at the parts counter? Anybody got one I could buy, beg, rent?

Tom

 

[Danster]

Any update to this problem? Have you checked the spring? Please update when you find/fixed the problem, thank you.


Dannyo