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SMC kit and mixture

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wicked6

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
183
My question is what is the best mixture? I hear everyone say to use denatured with squirts of WD40, but has anyone experimented with denatured and water mixture? How did that compare with straight denatured? Also, are there times when it would be advantagous to mix with water, like in the summer for added cooling from the hot/humid summer air?

Just some ?s for those that have been using alky for quite some time and have experimented. I would like to know everyones opinions.

Thanx
Frank
 
I used alky on my turbo bike for 15yrs, the best mix was 50/50. once you go 70 alky/30 water it loses the benefit.

Chuck
 
I wouldn't go more than 10% water. Any more than 10% can bog down the motor unless its mixed with methanol, then you can go more like 30%. Denatured is what the most part of us are using because it is more of a fuel and burns great. You won't really need the water. If anything use 91% rubbing alcohol thats cheap and works good too. The denatured is mainly used because if your kit comes on at low boost it won't bog down the motor because theres no water. Theres too much cooling at low psi to run any water. For me denatured works great as I have my first nozzle come on at 6psi and the second at 16psi.....

HTH
Joe
 
On my Turbo bike I start it at 5psi (only ran 18lbs top) with the 50/50 mixture and it doesn't bog it down. Once I go over 70% alky I noticed I can not run as much boost as with 50%. My experience it there was no difference between 65-50% but under 50% I had to run less boost. I don't have an intercooler but I wouldn't think that would make any difference.

XracerX,

Have you tried running less alky and more water to see if you can run more boost on less alky/water mixture (smaller jets)? Just thimking that maybe you are pump so much water in that you need the extra alky to keep it from bogging.

Chuck
 
We are talking about the turbo V6 here aren't we? Not a bike.

Yes I have tried 90%alcy/10%water but more water DOES bog the engine if you start injecting at 5-6psi. Yes the water does cool good. It cools TOO good at times. Thats why it bogs or what I should say is it cools the exhaust temp too much and reduces turbo spool up.

I am not pumping in alot of water. I never went more than 90/10, and I had that ill effect with 10% water coming on at 6psi with 2 nozzles. Not a problem with straight denatured at all.
For those people who only run one nozzle they should have it coming on around 14-16psi and initially start with a .020 jet. That is what I WAS doing before I went to 2 nozzles. I could not get it to run right at first so I used 2 .015 jets. No problem with denatured but with 91% it was slower to spool. After switching to denatured it was like night and day and you could literally feel the power with low boost and the first nozzle on.

My alcohol pumps that I sell are not made for water they are made for methanol. I would not even try 70/30 with these pumps..... Alot of people have good/bad experiences with 70/30.....90/10...and denatured. 50/50 seems to be at the bottom of the list. Its all in the tuning...Less gas more alcy..etc.

Wicked6
use the denatured.... you cant go wrong. try adding 10% water and see what you get. It may work to your benefit but your benefit only. Example: maybe you can only get 91-93 octane?
I use 94 octane Sunoco. I think if I had to use 91-93 octane I would want some water in there.

Joe Tripodi
Methanol/Alcohol Injection Kits & Parts
 
Sorry Joe,


I have a 87 GN but don't use alky on it. I like the nitrous better but most my experience with my 8.22/ 162 mph turbo bike have helped in my dealings with 87 GN. I have read alot on alky system and testing on alky systems since WWII when they used them on fighter planes. I haven't ever read any testing were they recommend over 50/50, so that was why I asked. I am just trying to learn like most and sometimes we can learn for other engine types. Best I can say is experiment with it.

Have a Good Day.

Chuck
 
Question

No flames just curious. What is the reason that you would need the alky to come on at such low boost levels? 5 or 6 psi seems too low. I could see it comming on at at 10 psi or so, maybe higher. Isn't the purpose of the alky to allow higher boost on pump gas? I plan to run the denatured mix, but thanks to my T+ and extender I can already run 18.5-19 psi on pump gas by itself with no knock and 23* timing.

Donnie
 
Thought I would pass on some stuff I had read by Sir Harry Ricado (author of The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine) he was the first to experiment with water injection and the alcohol/water injection on supercharged engines back in the 1930's and have been proven to be proven by Bonneville racers Ted Trevor and **** Griffin to be valid today. His test were as follows: Using a test engine set at 2,500 rpm and 7 to 1 compression ratio, the engine was run low grade 86 octane gasoline. Slowly, boost pressure was applied up to the first signs of detonation, which in the case was a Mean Effective Pressure of 168lbs per square inch. At this point the fuel mixture was enriched slightly in increments, and the boost was increased until detonation was again occuring. This process continued until a richer mixture no longer suppressed detonation. After a 60 percent increase in richness, more fuel did not reduce detonation, and in fact tended to increase detonation. At this point Ricardo introduced a fine spray of water into the intake and found that the intercooling effect and stream acted as a anti-ddetonate, making it possible to raise the boost level to a Mean Effective Pressure of 290lbs (which was as high as his dynamometer went). It was also found that the fuel mixture could be leaned out somewhat with the addition of water alone. Later, Ricardo experimented with a mixture of water and alcohol, thinking that alcohol as a fuel would add volatility along with an intake cooling effect, thereby resisting detonation even futher. He found that a 50-50 mixture of alcohol and water was the pratical limit. Any more than 50 percent alcohol did not improve performance and could possibly promote detonation.


With that said I would think if you would think you could use just water only with the correct jetting and not bog at all. And with 50-50 mix you would be able to run more boost with the same jets and possible lean out the fuel so you are not running extra fuel as to control detonation. Some chips have extra fuel to control detonation. So if you are running more alcohol then 50-50 you might see inprovements with the 50-50 and proper tunning. On my turbocharged bike with no intercooler I see 7-8 lbs of boost increase on 91 octane gas.

Might be something to think about.


Chuck
 
Donnieshort,

Not sure if that question was for Xracer or me, but if for me that is about 2-3 lbs before I knock with out the alky injection. That is what is recommend, 2-3 lbs before detonation. You will have to keep in mind the time of year. When it gets cooler out in spring and fall I set mine for 7lbs and in the summer 5lbs.

Hope that helps

Chuck
 
Originally posted by wilkinshc
Donnieshort,

Not sure if that question was for Xracer or me, but if for me that is about 2-3 lbs before I knock with out the alky injection. That is what is recommend, 2-3 lbs before detonation. You will have to keep in mind the time of year. When it gets cooler out in spring and fall I set mine for 7lbs and in the summer 5lbs.

Hope that helps

Chuck

That sounds reasonable. I'm installing my SMC kit this weekend and that's a good tip to know. Since I can run 18-19 psi on pump gas, I'll set spray on point to come in at 15-16 psi. Thanks. That's a good tip.

Donnie
 
the purpose of the first nozzle coming on at 5-6psi is if you are running as high as 28* timing, so it won't detonate.
 
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